John/Rich, et al:
Maybe we can get one of the biomedical companies to form a joint
venture with Alpha Power. Imagine the Alpha 87D (defib). In addition
to performing the usual features such as grid trip, warm-up timing,
and auto band switching - the 87D would monitor the patients heart
vitals via EKG. In the event of cardiac arrest or arrhythmia, the 87D
would automatically take the station off-line and deliver the
appropriate defibrillation pulse to the operator's heart. The
microprocessor would also simultaneously autodial 911 via modem
and upload operator vitals via PCS to the enroute paramedics.
With the average age of the amateur population on the rise, this
might be a potential growth market for Alpha and their lucky biomed
partner.
Mike, W4EF................
P.S. If the defibrillation were unsuccessful, the 87D could autodial
the FCC secure database with disposition instructions for the expired
operators callsign, thus facilitating reintroduction of highly prized
callsigns into the vanity pool.
----------
From: Jon Ogden[SMTP:jono@enteract.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 3:38 PM
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Electrical discharge through the heart (was
Resoldering 3-500Z pins)
>? There was one person present in my scenario. I essentially said that
>if an amateur radio operator realized that his heart has stopped,
>switching off the HV supply and Self-discharging the filter capacitor
>might restart his heart. The adding of a second person is a whole nuther
>matter.
If one's heart has stopped, the person has gone into cardiac arrest. I
think most people who go into cardiac arrest are unconscious. Therefore
they are unable to turn off their HV supply and shock themselves.
So this whole thing is a ludicrous and non-sensical senario after all
regardless of what positive effect and HV discharge might have!
73,
Jon
KE9NA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Ogden
jono@enteract.com
www.qsl.net/ke9na
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
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On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Rich Measures wrote:
>
> With the HV PS switched off? How is that say 16uF charged to 5kV is
>ok to discharge through a sick person's chest, and yet if discharged
>through the abdomen of a healthy person, it can result in death?
>
>- later, Gary
Rich I really think you need to do some research before you say something
that if taken literally, can kill someone.
I don't think you should be advocating discharging ANY electrical current
through anyone's chest UNLESS you have proper medical training and know
EXACTLY the condition that that person is in.
First of all, heart defibs are rarely employed for heart attacks. They
are usually used for cardiac arrests. Discharging electrical current
through a beating heart will usually result in death....this is called
electrocution.
By advocating discharging an amateur HV supply, energized or not, across
a human's chest without a medical diagnosis of cardiac arrest, is
irresponsible and will most likely result in death.
A heart attack is very different from cardiac arrest and as such is
treated very differently.
There are a few exceptions though. There are certain heart conditions
where the electrical impluses in the heart get out of sync resulting in no
blood being pumped. Essentially the heart just sits there and quivers.
In this case, a heart defib is sometimes used to re-synchronize the
electrical impulses in the heart and restore normal rhythm. But, and I
have to stress this again, this is NOT the type of diagnosis that is done
in the hamshack and corrected with a jolt of random energy from a HV
supply. Without the proper medical equipment and expertise to diagnose
this condition, you will most likely end up killing a friend, loved one
and probably yourself.
Enough said on this topic on the reflector and a word to the wise...don't
follow this poor advice.
73,
Gary K9GS
__________________
/ K9GS |______________________________
/ FP/K9GS, TO5M |Society of Midwest Contesters |____________________
( | garyk9gs@solaria.sol.net | /
\ Gary Schwartz | K9GS@WA9KEC.WI.USA.NOAM | Greater Milwaukee/
\__________________| | DX Association (
(________________________________| GMDXA \
KNOW CODE ! (_____________________\
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>
>On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Rich Measures wrote:
>
>
>> This is the first case I have heard of where a death was caused by the
>> stored charge on a filter capacitor. Heart defibrilator machines
>> typically have an energy storage capacitor that would work quite nicely
>> as the filter capacitor in an 8877's (FWB) HV power supply. For an
>> amateur radio operator who is having a heart attack, switching the
>> amplifier off and discharging the HV filter cap. through his chest might
>> very well save his life.
>
>
>This is one of the worst examples of mis-information I have ever seen.
>What makes this kind of comment so dangerous is that someone might
>actually follow Rich's advice and kill someone.
? The example involves only one person.
>
>Comparing a heart defib to a HV amateur amplifier supply is like comparing
>a OSHA approved climbing harness to a hank of clothesline from Wal-Mart
>for safe tower climbing.
>Yes, heart Defibs do discharge a tremendous amount of energy in a effort
>to re-start a heart.....trying to do the same with a HV PS will most
>likely kill them AND you.
>
? With the HV PS switched off? How is that say 16uF charged to 5kV is
ok to discharge through a sick person's chest, and yet if discharged
through the abdomen of a healthy person, it can result in death?
>
- later, Gary
Rich...
R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K, www.vcnet.com/measures
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