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[AMPS] G2DAF

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] G2DAF
From: measures@vc.net (Rich Measures)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:28:58 -0700


>
>> ?  I am not trying to use Thevenin's.  I am using the max power transfer
>> theorem, which essentially states that when half of the total P is being
>> dissipated in the generator,  transfer of P to the load is max. 
>
>Nowhere in the maximum power transfer theorem does it consider 
>source efficiency. 

?  With half of the total P being dissipated in the generator, and half 
of the power being delivered to the load R,  the efficiency is obviously 
50%.  
>
>The maximum power transfer theorem simply gives two 
>conclusions:
>
>1.) When the magnitude and angle of an impedance connected to 
>the terminals of a network is adjustable, the largest power results 
>when Z load is the conjugate of the output impedance of the 
>network when the load is removed. 
>
?  Say what?

>2.) When only the magnitude is adjustable, maximum power is 
>transferred when the absolute magnitude of the load impedance is 
>equal to the network or source impedance magnitude.
>
>As a matter of fact, the Maximum Power Transfer Theorem only 
>refers back to Thevenin and Norton models, both of which rule out 
>using the model in any application for describing source efficiency. 
>In all cases the source is a black box, and the matching process 
>does not define anything in that black box including energy 
>conversion efficiency.
> 
>> >If you do the interchange you will find your 60 percent amplifier 
>> >model made by wrongly applying Thevenin's theorem to a PA 
>> >suddenly becomes less than 50% efficient with the very same 
>> >parameters of operation.  
>> >  
>> ?  I don't see how doing the Thevenin/Norton interchange is going to solve
>> the discrepancy.  If the T/N interchange is valid, why not do it twice and
>> we are back to square one?.  
>
>The rules say the models are fully interchangeable. If they do not 
>interchange, you are misapplying the model. It is not your "right" to 
>pick the particular model that gives the results you want to use at 
>any given moment, unless you are invent a 300 mpg carburetor for 
>a 66 Caddy or a CFA antenna. 
>
>> ?  True .  It has everything to with dissipative resistances -- i.e., the
>> dissipative ESR in the generator and the dissipative resistance of the
>> load.  When power in the load is the maximum possible, an equal amount of
>> power will be dissipated in the ESR in the generator.  Thus, the
>> efficiency is 50% at max. power transfer to the load.  
>
>Georgia Power's generators just went up in smoke. 
>
>Seriously, let me use a generator as an example. Assume we have 
>a generator with a fixed shaft speed and unlimited torque compared 
>to the power we are consuming. If we fix the field winding 
>magnitude by opening the feedback loop to the regulator and do a 
>load pull on the generator, we will find maximum power is being 
>delivered at that fixed field amplitude for an impedance almost 
>exactly equal to the load impedance before the regulation was 
>removed.

?  ¿?
>
>If we increase ZL, voltage rises but current drops faster so net 
>power decreases. If we decrease ZL, current increases but voltage 
>drops faster. A load pull shown optimum load Z occurs at a fixed 
>impedance, which happens (in a well designed system) to be equal 
>to the load impedance set by the regulator at any given load 
>condition. The alternator or generator efficiency at that point is far 
>more than 50%, yet maximum or optimum power is being 
>transferred.

?   I agree that large stationary generators typically operate at 
efficiency percentages in the high 90s.  However, optimum efficiency 
necessarily means that maximum power is not being transferred-- i.e., 
optimum power transfer is not maximum possible power transfer.   .  
>.......
>......
>> >If you add an EQUAL amount of 
>> >capacitance in series with the grid you shift the resonant frequency LESS
>> >than 50% higher. That would require about 10 pF or so in an 811A.
>> >
>> ?  close enough
>> 
>> >Adding a few hundred pF barely changes the self-neutralizing 
>> >frequency of the tube, when that parameter is properly measured. 
>> >
>> ?  I agree that the resonance shift is relatively small, however, perhaps
>> it was far enough to decrease feedthough a bit at the anode-resonance.  
>
>No, they plainly claim it adds negative feedback.
>
?  I am not talking about a published claim.  When I was writing "The 
Nearly Perfect Amplifier",  I discovered that there is a gimmick in the 
30S-1 that is not detailed in the published blueprints.  
 
>......
>We could look at the 30L1, but I don't have the values handy 
>without digging. Let's look at the SB220 mistake that Kenwood 
>also copied.
>.......
>
?   I already agreed that the feedback claim was nonsense, Tom.  
> ...........


Rich...

R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K, www.vcnet.com/measures  


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