I have not been able to coax 36 kW out of 4CX15000 in class C, but
have gotten 35 kW out of 4CX20,000A/8990 tetrode. It took about 400
Watts of drive and screen voltage turned up, and can be found in the
Broadcast Electronics FM30B transmitter, at 100 MHz. At lower freq,
it may be possible to squeeze a little more, but I am wary of claims
of such power from a 15K - frankly all of that does sound a bit
hogwashy. If someone does, it won't be very long lived I think. I do
like the idea of Richs of "using an 8973 running 22 kV etc etc."
Would LOVE to see anyone try and tame that tube in a homebrew job!
John
K5PRO
>Amps Digest Thursday, October 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 391
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
> Re: [AMPS] Continuing CB amps...
> Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> [AMPS] RE:
> Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
> Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
> [AMPS] test ignore
> [AMPS] fair price for used 3CX3000A7
> Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
> [AMPS] X-Ray Emission
> Re: [AMPS] Big Radios....
> [AMPS] Those Big CB Amps.
> R: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> R: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> Re: [AMPS] Contest station database update
> Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
> Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>See the end of the digest for information about amps-digest
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:04:31 PDT
>From: "Jeff Wolf" <da_kang@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>Phil,
>
>4CX15000 is a tetrode whose single tone power output is theorically 36 Kw,
>as per Eimac data sheet., but the obtainable power by such kind of tubes is
>generally much less when talking about continuous carrier level.
>
>
> >>>The output power doesn't matter as to whether the maximum output is
> >>>carrier level or PEP. 1Kw is one Kw, and when you are doing 1Kw CW, you
> >>>are also doing 1Kw PEP.
>
>
>Often, the real curves of the tubes differ consitently from those deductable
>by the graphic of constant current ones on data sheets, and a single tone
>power is a different story than a carrier level.
>
> >>>Technobabble. Let's get on with the story.
>
>
>Saying it in other words, in a conventional class C final stage AM
>transmitter useing with a single 4CX15000 the carrier should be one fourth
>of max peak power to reach the claimed 36 Kw on the AM peaks.
>
>
> >>>And where in my original statement was a saying that we tuned the
> >>>amplifier up for true, linear, Class AB AM amplification?
>
>You are VERY good at reading things that aren't their. When the Popular
>Communications article came out last month on Bigradios.com (September,
>1999, front page article, "CB Superpower Badboys, or organized chaos)
>"aired", I had to field the same arguments from people who knew not what
>they where talking about.
>
>You would fall into that category on this subject. You may know GREAT
>design for RF, and you may be able to build a large amplifier, but you know
>NOTHING about the "Controlled Destruction" that the average 11 meter US
>operator subjects his equipment to.
>
>
>In other modes like FM, a wattmeter wouldn't read ever 36Kw of carrier power
>because that level is well over the tube capability and (reasonable) gain
>already went away at much lower carrier output.
>
>
> >>>Your saying that a 4CX15,000 wouldn't produce 36Kw of carrier power on an
> >>>FM signal when being hit with 14 Kilovolts on the anode, and far
> >>>exceeding the grid current rating grid driven?
>
>I think you better go back to electronics 101 if that is the case.
>
>Let's suppose reasonable a 10 dB gain to have 15 kW for each tube, the
>required drive power would be 1.5 Kw and the claimed 3 x 8877 could largely
>meet requirements for 30Kw (two tubes).
>
>
>Never, (even overdriving a lot) is possible to get twice that output (60Kw)
>in term of carrier power with that configuration and those tubes.
>
>
> >>>BS. It is done all the time in the Ghostrider and Bluegill amplifiers.
>
>Last but not least, a 10Kv tube operated @ 14Kv has yes a bigger gain and
>output (30-40%) but a much bigger probability of internal flashes.
>Statistically, in a parallel of 3 tubes the flash is nearly sure each time
>the full driving power is applied.
>
>
> >>>With the grid being biased as deep as it is, we have not run into that
> >>>problem very often.
>
>And, we don't use three tubes, we use two. The 3 tube amplifier is an 8877
>box. Personally, I don't like the 8877, but that was the particular tube
>that was used in this amp... I am partial to the 3CX1200 myself.
>
>Another point, a tetrode operated in GG doesn't differ substantially from a
>triode in term of efficiency
>
> >>>And what is your point here?
>
>and 3 x 8877 would be a total nonsense in a grid driven amplifier.
>
>
> >>>You really think so?
>
>
>All the story looks as the fishermans' story (the real fish is much smaller)
>or as something developed by someone with electronic bases but following
>conventional behaves
>
>
> >>>I don't deal in the conventional... I deal in the real and experienced.
>
>
>and the readings of data sheets rather than a mere report of real facts.
>
>
>
> >>>Well, next time you are stateside, I would like to take you to a
> >>>"keydown" event.
>
>And that goes for anyone on this reflector.... Interested or not, it is
>fun, and for the stuffed shirt types, it can be eye-opening.
>
>Concerning the reported corona effects, they may happen at nearly any power
>depending by used antennas and enviromental conditions.
>
>
> >>>Yes, and the world is flat, right?
>
>
>Mauri,
>
>I suggest that you do some research in the Peter Dahl catalog for CB use,
>and you will find the 3 phase transformers that we use, as well as other
>parts. Peter himself was one of the first to wind the transformers for a
>gentleman named Bobby in Chicago that specializes, and is currently the
>biggest mobile station that I know of.
>
>You can peruse the catalog and look at the figures of the transformers he /
>we use....
>
>Then, come back and tell us the same uneducated nonsense that you continue
>to pass as fact.
>
>
>
>Have a nice evening.
>
>
>
>Toll Free
>Houston, Texas.
>
>
>73,
>Mauri I4JMY
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 14:27:08 -0500
>From: Jon Ogden <jono@enteract.com>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
>Steve Bermudez wrote:
>
> >While I DO NOT agree with what they are doing from a legal, interference,
> >& RF exposure standpoint
>
>I don't either. But as far as I say, let them continue to use 10KV,
>15KV, 20KV, etc on their tubes. The X-ray emmission will eventually fry
>them and Darwins principle of natural selection will work its way through
>that group. Soon we'll see Darwin awards going to CBers who tried to do
>a Megawatt and vaporized themselves! :-)
>
>I won't shed a tear.
>
>73,
>
>Jon
>KE9NA
>
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Second Amendment is NOT about duck hunting!
>
>
>Jon Ogden
>
>jono@enteract.com
>www.qsl.net/ke9na
>
>"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:38:52 -0400
>From: "kc4slk" <kc4slk@csrlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Continuing CB amps...
>
>No lie on this one Phil. I saw one of these 8X3-500Z's amps for my self. A
>friend of mine re-did the input and output circuit and ran it on 75M one
>night because the a few nitnoids were stamping in on the Drake net. He being
>right in between them, set up shop and told them if they didn't move, he
>would go keydown with it for the rest of the night. Needless to say they
>stop their QRM and moved. Its unfortunate that a person has to take that
>kind of stance, but they asked them rather decently to move.
>Sometimes an amp is just an amp.
>Mike
>W3SLK
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Levin W2GE <w2ge@home.com>
>To: amps@contesting.com <amps@contesting.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:42 PM
>Subject: [AMPS] Continuing CB amps...
>
>
> >
> >At the sake of getting my head chopped off... Personally I'm kinda in
> >awe of the limits these guys are pushing. I decided to peruse the
> >bigradios site myself and in the FORSALE section came across many ads,
> >this one is not the only unusual one, many are like it:
> >
> >(Notice the EIGHT tube 3-500Z unit!@$#$@)
> >
> >*****Any one out there have a socket and chimney for 3CX10,000A7 please
> >e-mail me. I have for sale Three phase AC 22BUILT Mobile head with
> >Single
> >3CX3000A7 with Vacuum tuners. Also Used but in great shape 3CX5000A7 (no
> >socket needed) and One 4CX5000A Ive also have an EIGHT tube 3-500z head
> >with
> >Peter W. Dahl 120 amp filament transformer, vacuum variable plate tuner,
> >twin blowers and metered for amps and High Voltage. This will require
> >your own power
> >supply for High Voltage only. I have one 4cX1500b and one 4cx1000 also.
> >******
> >
> >
> >Humbly, wattage deficiently yours, Phil W2GE
> >
> >--
> >FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> >Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> >Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> >Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> >Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 14:43:30 -0500
>From: Jon Ogden <jono@enteract.com>
>Subject: Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>Jeff Wolf wrote:
>
> >>>>Well, next time you are stateside, I would like to take you to a
> >>>>"keydown" event.
>
>Great! We'll bring the FCC and the local police as well!
>
>
>
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Second Amendment is NOT about duck hunting!
>
>
>Jon Ogden
>
>jono@enteract.com
>www.qsl.net/ke9na
>
>"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:54:02 -0400
>From: Pete Smith <n4zr@contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>At 12:04 PM 10/14/1999 PDT, Jeff Wolf wrote:
>
> >You are VERY good at reading things that aren't their. When the Popular
> >Communications article came out last month on Bigradios.com (September,
> >1999, front page article, "CB Superpower Badboys, or organized chaos)
> >"aired", I had to field the same arguments from people who knew not what
> >they where talking about.
> >
> >You would fall into that category on this subject. You may know GREAT
> >design for RF, and you may be able to build a large amplifier, but you know
> >NOTHING about the "Controlled Destruction" that the average 11 meter US
> >operator subjects his equipment to.
>
>Mauri, I think where you went "astray" was in supposing that they were
>actually trying to use these devices for communication. These amplifiers
>and their ratings have about as much in common with communications as
>LOX-injected barbecue grills have with cooking.
>
>With respect, if what we've seen on the website is any indication, the
>"superpower badboys" are about as far from the *average* US 11-meter
>operator as it's possible to be. To the extent that some CBers are using
>this stuff at home, I hope the FCC starts knocking on some doors, quickly.
>
>
>
>I don't think there is any serious dispute that if linearity is unimportant
>and an amplifier need only sustain key-down conditions for a few seconds,
>then lots of things are possible. It looks to me as if the major technical
>challenge these guys face is designing portable motor-driven power sources
>that can supply enough juice for even a short time.
>
>73, Pete N4ZR
>Sometimes a tower is just a tower
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:38:36 -0700
>From: "Radiodan W7RF" <RFpower@radiodan.com>
>Subject: [AMPS] RE:
>
> >Thanks... I appreciate the confidentiality. However, I was not attempting
> >to hide myself, anymore than the people on the AMPS reflector running
> >"Tetrodes with Handles" do.
>
>Technical aspects aside, it sounds as though you are trying to put these
>extremely overpower, illegal and dangerous CBers a class with those Ham
>Radio operators who run between a little to quite a bit over power.
>
>Don't even think of attempting to elevate yourselves by any perceived
>similarity.
>CBers can legally run 4 watts output , HAMS can run 1500 watts.
>
>ANY amplifier on a CB radio is illegal, while even overkill amplifiers on
>HAM radio CAN be operated within legal limits.
>Even stretching the limits, a 3DB increase in CB power out is 8 watts, the
>same increase in HAM power out is 3000 watts.
>
>There is NO justification for the blatant illegal operation of many CBers
>out there.
>
>73, Dan Magro W7RF, (President WARC 1999, member SCDXC, SCCC)
>Manufacturers Rep & Distributor for HENRY RF Power Amplifiers.
>RF Applications Power Measuring equipment, See the VFD & WinWatt!
>www.radiodan.com <http://www.radiodan.com> RFpower@radiodan.com
><mailto:RFpower@radiodan.com> A trip to our web site is worth the click!
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:41:21 -1000
>From: "Jim Reid" <jreid@aloha.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
> > I certainly feel that the use to which they put this power
> >is frivolous at best but I can appreciate the ingenuity &
> >use of available resources!!
>
>It would appear they have a bang up good time at
>their gatherings; the whole family seems to join
>in, unlike some or ours. That seems to be their
>purpose, just having fun, I guess. Ever see
>a couple of us playing chess, as some of them
>seemed to be doing at their San Diego outing,
>or competing in gunny sack races and tug of
>war, hi?
>
>73, Jim, KH7M
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 16:08:05 -0500
>From: Jon Ogden <jono@enteract.com>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
>Jim Reid wrote:
>
> >or competing in gunny sack races and tug of
> >war, hi?
>
>Well, we engage in tug of wars on AMPS everyday! And while gunny sacks
>might not be the right terms, there are plent of sacks of other stuff
>floated around here sometimes!
>
>:-)
>
>73,
>
>Jon
>KE9NA
>
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Second Amendment is NOT about duck hunting!
>
>
>Jon Ogden
>
>jono@enteract.com
>www.qsl.net/ke9na
>
>"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:18:55 -0700
>From: "Lane Zeitler Ku7i" <zeitler@attglobal.net>
>Subject: [AMPS] test ignore
>
>test
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:20:16 -0700
>From: "Lane Zeitler Ku7i" <zeitler@attglobal.net>
>Subject: [AMPS] fair price for used 3CX3000A7
>
>What is the range for a used but full out 3CX3000A7?
>
>Lane
>Ku7i
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:30:47 -0700
>From: measures <measures@vcnet.com>
>Subject: Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
> >
> >Phil,
> >
> >4CX15000 is a tetrode whose single tone power output is theorically 36 Kw,
> >as per Eimac data sheet., but the obtainable power by such kind of tubes is
> >generally much less when talking about continuous carrier level.
> >
>The Eimac specs are for continuous Aÿ ............
>
>- - Rich..., 805.386.3734, www.vcnet.com/measures.
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:35:59 -0400
>From: "kc4slk" <kc4slk@csrlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
>We certainly have our share of campfires with lots of "flames" to fan.
>...-.-
>Mike
>W3SLK
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Ogden <jono@enteract.com>
>To: Jim Reid <jreid@aloha.net>; amps@contesting.com <amps@contesting.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:08 PM
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
>
> >
> >Jim Reid wrote:
> >
> >>or competing in gunny sack races and tug of
> >>war, hi?
> >
> >Well, we engage in tug of wars on AMPS everyday! And while gunny sacks
> >might not be the right terms, there are plent of sacks of other stuff
> >floated around here sometimes!
> >
> >:-)
> >
> >73,
> >
> >Jon
> >KE9NA
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >The Second Amendment is NOT about duck hunting!
> >
> >
> >Jon Ogden
> >
> >jono@enteract.com
> >www.qsl.net/ke9na
> >
> >"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
> >
> >
> >--
> >FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> >Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> >Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> >Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> >Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:54:41 -0400
>From: RICHARD W SOLOMON <w1ksz@juno.com>
>Subject: [AMPS] X-Ray Emission
>
>Sorry to ruin your day with thoughts of X-Ray Fried Brains, but X-Rays
>do not travel very far in the Earths atmosphere. But they sure do
>travel in a vacuum (Check out the Chandra (nee AXAF) and the
>Einstein (nee HEAO) Observatory data).
>
>73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Get the Internet just the way you want it.
>Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
>Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:09:29 -0400
>From: Mark S Graalman <wb8jkr@juno.com>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Big Radios....
>
> Holy shit.........
>
>
>Mark WB8JKR
>
>
> >
> >So, next time you find yourself stateside, I suggest that you come to
> >a
> >keydown, if you can possibly take your holier than though amateur
> >attitude
> >and check it in at customs first.
> >
> >You might be somewhat surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >Toll Free
> >Shane
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >--
> >FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> >Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> >Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> >Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> >Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Get the Internet just the way you want it.
>Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
>Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:29:22 +0100
>From: Larry Molitor <w7iuv@axtek.com>
>Subject: [AMPS] Those Big CB Amps.
>
>I wish those CB type would cough up some real quality photographs for the
>AMPS PIX page. I wanna see how you stuff 8 3-500Z's in a box.
>
>
>73,
>
>Larry - W7IUV
>w7iuv@arrl.net
>http://www.axtek.com/w7iuv
>Amp pix at http://207.108.137.61
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:30:30 +0200
>From: "Maurizio Panicara" <i4jmy@iol.it>
>Subject: R: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>(see below)
>
>- -----Messaggio Originale-----
>Da: Jeff Wolf <da_kang@hotmail.com>
>A: <i4jmy@iol.it>
>Cc: <amps@contesting.com>
>Data invio: giovedÏ 14 ottobre 1999 21.04
>Oggetto: Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>
> > >>>The output power doesn't matter as to whether the maximum output is
> > >>>carrier level or PEP. 1Kw is one Kw, and when you are doing 1Kw CW,
>you
> > >>>are also doing 1Kw PEP.
>
>Really ?
>Can you explain us how can we measure peak power instead of the carrier with
>an RMS power meter ?
>
>
> > Often, the real curves of the tubes differ consitently from those
>deductable
> > by the graphic of constant current ones on data sheets, and a single tone
> > power is a different story than a carrier level.
> >
> > >>>Technobabble. Let's get on with the story.
>
>Are you sure ?
>Have you ever tried to draw static curves in a zero bias tube like a
>3CX15000 varying catode voltage and
>measuring Ip ?
>
> > You would fall into that category on this subject. You may know GREAT
> > design for RF, and you may be able to build a large amplifier, but you
>know
> > NOTHING about the "Controlled Destruction" that the average 11 meter US
> > operator subjects his equipment to.
>
>
>Then I'm happy to be ignorant in that.
>I never found a job or some aspect in amateur radio where I was asked to
>design or check something voted to
>self destruction.
>
> >
> >
> > In other modes like FM, a wattmeter wouldn't read ever 36Kw of carrier
>power
> > because that level is well over the tube capability and (reasonable) gain
> > already went away at much lower carrier output.
> >
> >
> > >>>Your saying that a 4CX15,000 wouldn't produce 36Kw of carrier power on
>an
> > >>>FM signal when being hit with 14 Kilovolts on the anode, and far
> > >>>exceeding the grid current rating grid driven?
> >
> > I think you better go back to electronics 101 if that is the case.
>
>Grid driven ?
>A 3 x 8877 PA to grid drive ?
>Can you explain ?
>
> >
> > Let's suppose reasonable a 10 dB gain to have 15 kW for each tube, the
> > required drive power would be 1.5 Kw and the claimed 3 x 8877 could
>largely
> > meet requirements for 30Kw (two tubes).
> >
> >
> > Never, (even overdriving a lot) is possible to get twice that output
>(60Kw)
> > in term of carrier power with that configuration and those tubes.
> >
> >
> > >>>BS. It is done all the time in the Ghostrider and Bluegill amplifiers.
> >
>
>Did you ever try yourself them or do you report someone else points ?
>
>.
> >
> > And, we don't use three tubes, we use two. The 3 tube amplifier is an
>8877
> > box. Personally, I don't like the 8877, but that was the particular tube
> > that was used in this amp... I am partial to the 3CX1200 myself.
>
>What's wrong in the 8877 ??
>
> >
> > Another point, a tetrode operated in GG doesn't differ substantially from
>a
> > triode in term of efficiency
> >
> > >>>And what is your point here?
>
>Like "Paganini", I dont' repeat again it's written.
>
> >
> > and 3 x 8877 would be a total nonsense in a grid driven amplifier.
> >
> >
> > >>>You really think so?
>
>
>If nothing changed in the last days, grid driven is an approximation of a
>voltage drive.
>Can you explain how do you calculate the needed driving power in a common
>cathode amp ?
>
>
> > All the story looks as the fishermans' story (the real fish is much
>smaller)
> > or as something developed by someone with electronic bases but following
> > conventional behaves
> >
> >
> > >>>I don't deal in the conventional... I deal in the real and
>experienced.
> >
>
>Me too.
>
> >
> > and the readings of data sheets rather than a mere report of real facts.
> >
>
>For me and many others, this is often in contrast with the previous
>sentence.
>
> >
> >
> > >>>Well, next time you are stateside, I would like to take you to a
> > >>>"keydown" event.
>
>I think I'll be there for Dayton 2000, for the Hamvention.
>
> >
> > And that goes for anyone on this reflector.... Interested or not, it is
> > fun, and for the stuffed shirt types, it can be eye-opening.
> >
> > Concerning the reported corona effects, they may happen at nearly any
>power
> > depending by used antennas and enviromental conditions.
> >
> >
> > >>>Yes, and the world is flat, right?
>
>
>No, the world it's a three dimensional object but for a number of reasons
>any other shape might is good time to time.
>
>A short but loaded antenna can behave as an autotransformer. The antenna
>edge can spark in the air because of an high voltage and the voltage depends
>by the impedance. Not necessarily the voltage creating a corona effect is
>due to an abnormal power.
>Do you want to bet on it ?
>
>73,
>Mauri I4JMY
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:33:24 +0200
>From: "Maurizio Panicara" <i4jmy@iol.it>
>Subject: R: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>Pete,
>
>the argument is already closed for me. I did astray, but if I'm not in
>error, in the first posting about this topic there was no sign those amp
>were not built for communications.
>
>73,
>Mauri I4JMY
>
>By the way, You've done a nice job with your contest stations data base !
>
>
>
>- -----Messaggio Originale-----
>Da: Pete Smith <n4zr@contesting.com>
>A: <amps@contesting.com>
>Data invio: giovedÏ 14 ottobre 1999 21.54
>Oggetto: Re: R: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>
> > I don't think there is any serious dispute that if linearity is
>unimportant
> > and an amplifier need only sustain key-down conditions for a few seconds,
> > then lots of things are possible. It looks to me as if the major
>technical
> > challenge these guys face is designing portable motor-driven power sources
> > that can supply enough juice for even a short time.
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> > Sometimes a tower is just a tower
> >
> > --
> > FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> > Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> > Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> > Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> > Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:56:22 -0700
>From: "Ron Spencer" <n4vos@mis.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Contest station database update
>
>Well I wonder why people that use these tubes in radio stations and tv
>stations if possible dont use all of the crazy power configs. It sounds like
>a true CB tail to me. But I have been wrong before. I would just tap onto
>the H.V. power line outside the house. Because danger must not be a issue to
>someone like this, Ron
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Pete Smith <n4zr@contesting.com>
>To: cq-contest@contesting.com <cq-contest@contesting.com>;
>towertalk@contesting.com <towertalk@contesting.com>; amps@contesting.com
><amps@contesting.com>; pvrc@qth.net <pvrc@qth.net>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 11:49 AM
>Subject: [AMPS] Contest station database update
>
>
> >
> >I've finally caught up with the input to the database, so if you want to go
> >check again, any changes you have forwarded should be reflected there.
> >Please feel free to correct any errors you find, because I did input the
> >change manually.
> >
> >In the next few days, I will be adding a field for receiving antennas or
> >other special equipment to both databases, and a field for alternate calls.
> > A number of DX stations have called for the latter because of the frequent
> >use of special contest calls, etc.
> >
> >I am also working on a lookup system that will allow you to see just the
> >calls of stations in the database. The trick here is to give you a useful
> >tool without a prohibitively long download time. One option that might be
> >implemented without too much difficulty would be to let you see all the
> >"1s" at once, "2s" etc. That would be easy to implement for the
> >US/Canadian database, but much more work for the DX database.
> >
> >To check your entry or add your station to the database, go to
> >http://206.102.70.3/search.htm.
> >
> >
> >
> >73, Pete N4ZR
> >Sometimes a tower is just a tower
> >
> >--
> >FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> >Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> >Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> >Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> >Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:04:58 -0500
>From: "Phil Clements" <philk5pc@tyler.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
>- ----- Original Message -----
>From: Jim Reid <jreid@aloha.net>
>To: Steve Bermudez <odin@webspan.net>; <amps@contesting.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 3:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] Re: Our CB Brethren!
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > I certainly feel that the use to which they put this power
> > >is frivolous at best but I can appreciate the ingenuity &
> > >use of available resources!!
> >
> > It would appear they have a bang up good time at
> > their gatherings; the whole family seems to join
> > in, unlike some or ours. That seems to be their
> > purpose, just having fun, I guess. Ever see
> > a couple of us playing chess, as some of them
> > seemed to be doing at their San Diego outing,
> > or competing in gunny sack races and tug of
> > war, hi?
> >
> > 73, Jim, KH7M
> >
>The web site forgot to mention the prize money that
>changes hands at one of these meets. Thousands
>of dollars change hands in one afternoon. Unlike
>amateur radio, these guys are also in it for the money.
>They do not modulate these beasts on the air and
>brag of their expertize while getting 40 over S-9 reports
>from rare DX. As someone already mentioned, the
>amps/power supplies are systematically destroyed
>little by little each time they key up due to the higher
>than normal output power. The prime objective is to
>collect the prize money and buy more stuff for the
>next meet.
>
>And now...you know thr REST of the story!
>
>Phil Clements......GOOD DAY!
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:05:32 -0700
>From: "Ron Spencer" <n4vos@mis.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>And one more thing I guess they was feeding it with 4 inch rigid electrical
>conduit! or was it RG 58
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: measures <measures@vcnet.com>
>To: Phil Levin W2GE <w2ge@home.com>; amps@contesting.com
><amps@contesting.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 5:32 PM
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>I'm quoting without names a message from what our CB brethren are up to.
> >>
> >>
> >>"Take for instance...
> >>
> >>
> >>2X4CX15,000 being driven by 3X8877
> >>Ep was close to 14 kV on the 15,000s....
> >>
> >>Power output was capable of over 80,000 watts Bird. Tuning it up, with
> >>a
> >>1 kW slug in the Bird meter for reverse measurements, we couldn't get it
> >>to
> >>wiggle up to 40 kW forward output. At the 44 kW mark (or thereabouts),
> >>we
> >>blew the top of the antenna off, a nice blue corona came, and the
> >>antenna
> >>spit flames! Nice, to say the least. The tubes are run Class C, and
> >>tetrodes are the tube of choice. What with screen volts, you get better
> >>efficiency. Just have to keep those grids biased WAY negative, and you
> >>can
> >>live with the higher plate voltage.
> >>
> >>After that, we went to a "fighting stick" (Quarter wave, usually made
> >>from
> >>3/4 inch copper pipe, chrome plated) and we where able to tune the amp
> >>to
> >>75 kW. It still had more to go, but that was where we left it for a
> >>competition. This was the inaugural run of the amp.
> >>
> >>You might wonder where the power comes from for one of these beasts (and
> >>this is smallish. The last one that I saw perform (over 4th of July)
> >>was
> >>capable of nearly 125 kW Avg. output)).
> >>
> >>Usually it is a big block motor, using alternators made by the
> >>Electrodyne
> >>company. They are designed as Locomotive Braking motors, but run with a
> >>small voltage on the field, they will act as an alternator... They are
> >>dual
> >>stator, single rotor, producing 60 volts at 600 amps each stator, run
> >>full
> >>field. Run 5 to 7 of these.
> >>
> >>Engine: Large stroke, large bore with Nitrous is the name of the game.
> >>Typically see 500+ horsepower.
> >>
> >>So, you see, the CB community has really started going nuts. I don't
> >>agree
> >>with the power levels run, but that is what the market "demands".
> >>
> >>Like I said, if you want a good "big picture" scene, look at
> >>www.bigradios.com/shadow... Come see what us goofy CBers are doing.
> >>
> >>I had one blow the high voltage power supply from my video camera.. I
> >>was
> >>about 100 yards away... This was from near field radiation picked up by
> >>the
> >>power lines."
> >>
> >>
> >>Oh Boy, Phil W2GE
> >>
> >Bovine Feces.
> >>
> >
> >
> >- Rich..., 805.386.3734, www.vcnet.com/measures.
> >
> >
> >--
> >FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> >Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> >Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> >Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> >Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:09:56 -0700
>From: "Ron Spencer" <n4vos@mis.net>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Spencer <n4vos@mis.net>
>To: measures <measures@vcnet.com>; Phil Levin W2GE <w2ge@home.com>;
>amps@contesting.com <amps@contesting.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 9:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
>
>
> >And one more thing I guess they was feeding it with 4 inch rigid electrical
> >conduit! or was it RG 58
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: measures <measures@vcnet.com>
> >To: Phil Levin W2GE <w2ge@home.com>; amps@contesting.com
> ><amps@contesting.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
> >Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 5:32 PM
> >Subject: Re: [AMPS] You gotta read this....
> >
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I'm quoting without names a message from what our CB brethren are up to.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Take for instance...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>2X4CX15,000 being driven by 3X8877
> >>>Ep was close to 14 kV on the 15,000s....
> >>>
> >>>Power output was capable of over 80,000 watts Bird. Tuning it up, with
> >>>a
> >>>1 kW slug in the Bird meter for reverse measurements, we couldn't get it
> >>>to
> >>>wiggle up to 40 kW forward output. At the 44 kW mark (or thereabouts),
> >>>we
> >>>blew the top of the antenna off, a nice blue corona came, and the
> >>>antenna
> >>>spit flames! Nice, to say the least. The tubes are run Class C, and
> >>>tetrodes are the tube of choice. What with screen volts, you get better
> >>>efficiency. Just have to keep those grids biased WAY negative, and you
> >>>can
> >>>live with the higher plate voltage.
> >>>
> >>>After that, we went to a "fighting stick" (Quarter wave, usually made
> >>>from
> >>>3/4 inch copper pipe, chrome plated) and we where able to tune the amp
> >>>to
> >>>75 kW. It still had more to go, but that was where we left it for a
> >>>competition. This was the inaugural run of the amp.
> >>>
> >>>You might wonder where the power comes from for one of these beasts (and
> >>>this is smallish. The last one that I saw perform (over 4th of July)
> >>>was
> >>>capable of nearly 125 kW Avg. output)).
> >>>
> >>>Usually it is a big block motor, using alternators made by the
> >>>Electrodyne
> >>>company. They are designed as Locomotive Braking motors, but run with a
> >>>small voltage on the field, they will act as an alternator... They are
> >>>dual
> >>>stator, single rotor, producing 60 volts at 600 amps each stator, run
> >>>full
> >>>field. Run 5 to 7 of these.
> >>>
> >>>Engine: Large stroke, large bore with Nitrous is the name of the game.
> >>>Typically see 500+ horsepower.
> >>>
> >>>So, you see, the CB community has really started going nuts. I don't
> >>>agree
> >>>with the power levels run, but that is what the market "demands".
> >>>
> >>>Like I said, if you want a good "big picture" scene, look at
> >>>www.bigradios.com/shadow... Come see what us goofy CBers are doing.
> >>>
> >>>I had one blow the high voltage power supply from my video camera.. I
> >>>was
> >>>about 100 yards away... This was from near field radiation picked up by
> >>>the
> >>>power lines."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Oh Boy, Phil W2GE
> >>>
> >>Bovine Feces.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>- Rich..., 805.386.3734, www.vcnet.com/measures.
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
> >>Submissions: amps@contesting.com
> >>Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
> >>Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
> >>Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
> >>
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Amps Digest V2 #391
>**************************
>
>
>--
>FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampfaq.html
>Submissions: amps@contesting.com
>Administrative requests: amps-digest-REQUEST@contesting.com
>Problems: owner-amps-digest@contesting.com
--
FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/ampsfaq.html
Submissions: amps@contesting.com
Administrative requests: amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
Problems: owner-amps@contesting.com
Search: http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm
|