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Re: [Amps] amp tubes

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] amp tubes
From: "Will Matney" <craxd1@verizon.net>
Reply-to: craxd1@verizon.net
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:11:09 -0400
List-post: <mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Lou,

The only problem I see in using more powerful tubes is the strain on the 
components, 
especially the HV transformer. The HV transformer is designed for the output of 
two 
572B's running at about 600 watts (or is the most I've seen from a set). 
Heathkit 
especially designed for an intermittent duty transformer, and it's design is 
right on the 
edge itself. Every transformer they designed was this way. Some might argue 
they 
were designed tougher, but I did some comparisons, and calculations using the 
core 
size, and they were smaller as compared to others. This can be seen in the 
regulation 
they have too. Of course if one intends to run SSB only, this would help by a 
margin of 
around 25%, or the transformer would run 25% cooler, and have around 25% better 
regulation than on AM or CW. Generally an amps transformer is designed around 
the 
carrier and the peak power of AM or CW unless it's a SSB only amp. I'd watch 
about 
the transformer getting hotter using tubes with more gain than usual over this. 
Tubes 
can be replaced pretty cheap, but transformers are expensive.

Best,

Will

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 9/10/06 at 8:54 AM Gudguyham@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 9/9/2006 8:28:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>carlseye@tampabay.rr.com writes:
>
>I  have been working on an amp, fl2100B , and see something I can't  
>believe.!!  the amp has 2 ea. New chinese type  572B's.
>I have two output meters, both WM1 auteks.;  With  about 60-80 watts 
>input I'm seeing almost 1 kw. *output*. Is this anywhere  near logical 
>??  The HV is about 2200-2300 under load. !! It just  doesn't seem 
>possible, and I've never seen anything like this
>before  !!!
>I've worked on many other amps ( similar ) and have  never seen 
>anything like that much output.!!
>BUT,  I've never used *chinese* 572'B s either !!
>Do any of  you have any spec's that might differ from the
>U S. ( IE )  taylor ,l or other mfrs. Specs as to the gain factors 
>between the US and  chinese specs'?????>
>I'd appreciate any info anyone  might have !!!!!
>carl /  kz5ca
>
>
>
>
>
>Carl, What band are you seeing this kind of output?  I  had a  WM-1 in the 
>past and I would not say they are the most accurate meter I have  ever
>owned, in 
>fact far from it.  There are adjustments to "calibrate" it,  but it tends
>to 
>be a compromise along the bands.  Likewise, I have never  seen this much
>power 
>from a pair of 572B tubes, but I have used MANY of the  Chinese 572B tubes
>in 
>my 6 meter conversions and they DO out perform ANY other  brand of 572B 
>including Cetrons.  Though my experience with them is only on  6 meters
>which is 
>the upper limit of which they will work, there is no doubt  that the
>Chinese 
>tubes make more power than others.  I would NOT even  attempt to use a
>Russian 
>tube on 6 meters!  Though I doubt the Chinese  tubes have the quality
>control 
>that the Cetrons did, I could imagine that some  tubes may have more gain
>than 
>others and perhaps you have gotten a "freak" pair  that makes more power
>than 
>most.  At one time I did see about 800 watts out  of one of my 6 meter
>SB-200 
>retrofits on 6 meters and I was amazed at  that.  I obtained that with
>every 
>bit of 100 watts of drive.  You  mention that you see this with only 60-80
>watts 
>of drive, that makes me  wonder.  If you could possibly retest the output 
>using another meter I  would be curious to see what reading you get.  When
>I 
>tested the output of  my 6 meter SB-200 conversions I did it into a Bird
>dummy 
>load using a Bird 43  meter with a KW slug.  I also used another meter to
>see 
>what it said.   Other meters were always close to the Bird numbers by 
>single 
>digit  percentages.  Now, it has been almost 3 years since I have used a
>set of  
>Chinese tubes in an SB-200 on 6 meters, and perhaps NOW they have even
>more 
>gain  then they did then.  I don't mean to doubt your claim, but I would
>see if  
>another meter tells you the same thing.  I do believe a test into a dummy  
>load with more than one meter is in order.  Report results if you can do 
>such a 
>new test.  BOTTOM LINE: I do agree that the Chinese tubes have more  gain 
>then other types of 572B, and maybe they have just improved their 
>product.  
>Could be?  73 Lou
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