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[Amps] more observations on the QSK-5

To: "Amp Reflector" <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] more observations on the QSK-5
From: "kingwood" <k5jv@kingwoodcable.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:01:22 -0500
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Greetings to all,

        After a few days playing with the stand alone QSK-5, I think I have 
it working just about as good as it will ever work.  I had to fix two cold 
solder joints, tighten RCA Phono connectors, and move a wire wound resistor 
to avoid a HV (480 V) short.  A little quality control would really help. 
Now the unit works, but with one glaring exception.

        The stand alone unit uses two relays to bypass itself when turned 
off, or when it has not been keyed for a few seconds.  This feature allows 
signals to reach your receiver with the
QSK-5 turned off.  These relays have to actuate before actual RF is applied 
to the PIN diode board.  There is a delay circuit on the power supply board 
that holds these relays in (once activated) for about six seconds, on this 
unit.  So, if you just start sending a string of CW these relays must 
completely actuate before RF can be applied to the PIN diodes.  One of these 
relays is a fairly fast reed relay.  The other is a very slow open frame T/R 
relay -- the same relay used in several commercial amps.

          So, what is the problem?  The QSK line of most transceivers have 
between 15 and 50 MS delay from the time the QSK line is activated before RF 
(CW) is transmitted.  Unfortunately, the close time of the open frame T/R 
relay used in the QSK-5 is noticeable longer than 50 MS.  Therefore,  the 
first dit of a CW string will be lost, or truncated.  Is something is being 
hot switched here?.   If you do not believe me, take a listen to your CW, 
not with your receiver monitor, but off the air with another receiver.  Look 
at it with a scope.  With my scope hookup, I see a solid horizontal bar 
representing the drive power followed shortly by the full trapezoid 
developing.  Of course, you do not see this for the rest of your CW 
transmission because the relays are completely activated -- Just on the 
first dit.   When you test this for yourself, remember to let the 3 to 6 
second time delay, built into the QSK-5, elapse.  The relays must open 
before you can test their close time.

        I can menu select the QSK delay time on my transceiver.   With the 
delay set to 15 MS, I see this problem 9 out of ten times.  At 20 MS, about 
the same.  At 25 Ms, 4 to 5 out of ten.  At 30 MS delay, 2 to 3 times out of 
10.  With 50 MS delay the problem still occurs, but it might go 10 to 15 
times before it happens.

          So what is the answer?  FASTER RELAYS?  That is if you just have 
to use the relays.  I thought that the main reason for going to diode 
switching was speed.  It does not make sense to me to design a beautiful, 
fast switching PIN diode board and then slow it down with ancient, slow, 
mechanical relays that detracts from its performance.  It seams to me that 
some solid state switching, or vacuum relays are in order here.   But, look 
what that will do to the cost of the unit.

        It should be mentioned that when using the internal QSK-5PC, this 
situation never occurs because there are no relays involved.  However, there 
are other issues.  With the internal board, the amp must be turned on or no 
signal will pass through the QSK board to the receiver.   Perhaps, that is 
why the relays were added to the stand alone unit?

        We pay a price for anything that is worthwhile.  I think that both 
QSK-5 units are quite worthwhile.  I prefer the internal unit to the stand 
alone unit.  If you do not have a problem with having to turn your amp on 
while just receiving, that is the way to go.  That is the price I pay for 
Diode switching QSK.  OF course, relay QSK avoids all of this.


73 de Lon, K5JV

1110 Golden Bear Ln.
Kingwood, TX 77339

281-358-4207
281-358-4234 FAX
281-795-1335 CELL 

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