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Re: [Amps] resistor before the cap redux

To: Jim.thom@telus.net, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] resistor before the cap redux
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:08:31 EST
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
 
Jim, did you test using the Mag transformer with the larger AC wiring? Did  
you test using the Dahl transformer using the smaller AC wiring?
 
In other words, how much of the problem is caused by the 12 ga  wiring?
 
Has anyone determined that a 22 ohm resistance in series with the secondary 
 is enough to actually take care of the turn on surge? I ask this because 
many I  have measured some of the Dahl secondary windings at about 25 ohms. 
Adding  another 22 ohms only reduces the charging current by about half. In 
my  experience, the charging current needs to be much lower than that.
 
You mention pri magnetizing current: I am not familiar with that term and  
am guessing there is a 1.9 A current flow in the primary with no load on the 
 secondary. If so, there is about 450 watts of loss just sitting there.  
Seems the transformer would get pretty warm when this happens. Am I  
understanding this correctly?
 
I went through a voltage drop witch hunt in my shack a few years back and  
also found that 12 ga wiring for the power amplifiers is entirely 
inadequate. I  ran a temporary length of 4/0 three conductor cable from the 
breaker 
panel to  the amplifier area and that blasted cable is still there and in the 
way! I just  have to get it out of there one of these days.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
n a message dated 2/10/2010 7:24:54 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
Jim.thom@telus.net writes:


I  just ran a bunch of numbers on PSU designer and got quite different
numbers  than yours. I suspect it is because of the way measurements are
being made.  That is if I am doing things right here!



Notice that with the  10 MFd filter and 22 ohm series resistor the Vo
Drops 387 (multiplied by  100) volts from 267 ma load to 1.64 amp load.
With a 100 MFD capacitor that  voltage drop is only 149 volts.

With no series resistor and a 10 MFD  filter the voltage swing is 377
volts. Only 10 volts better than with the  22 ohm resistor.

But with the 100 MFD filter the voltage swing from 272  ma to 1.82 amps
is only 59 volts without the 22 ohm resistor. This is about  100 volts
better regulation than with the 22 ohm  resistor.


Should we not worry so much about low resistance windings  on our
transformers?

###  Low resistance winding's on a plate  xfmr are everything imo. 
A buddy just went through grief, using a NEW 46  lb mag cap xfmr
for a 6m  gs35b 6m amp.    V regulation was  terrible.  Sure, there
was a 6 v  drop on the long 12 ga   240 line... but that same line
power's  his alpha too. [ not at the  same time of course].  700 v drop
on the single tube 6m amp.   

## The mag cap was changed out  with a huge dahl  xfmr,
complete  with 2 ga  wire back to main panel  and a  string of 
2500 uf new HV lytics.  NOW, the V regulation is  superb.  
Less  than 150 v.  

##  I call the  B+  voltage you get, when drawing ZSAC, the real
NO load B+...   not  when on RX.   Amp has to idle 1st... b4
drive can be  applied.  [assuming NO EBS]  OK, hit the PTT, and
either pulse  tune..or talk on ssb.     B+ barely moves.  PEP  out  
of the amp is WAY up.

###  Installing the 20-25 ohm resistor  between  FWB  and B+ caps
would have one good application  though.... for step start.  In that case,
you don't have the problem  of PRI magnetizing current  flowing through
the normal ..'resistor in  one leg of 240 line'  conventional step start. 

## the mag   current on some of my 4800 vac pole pigs is 1.9A 
IE: you can never fully  charge the B+ caps  up to almost full. I end up
with one helluva big  sec surge, when resistor in 240 line is shorted. The
fix for now, was to  reduce it's value.  [25 ohms..down to 10 ohms] 

## Now, installing  the  25 ohm resistor, between FWB  and B+ caps..
this would be  great  for step start...THEN, short it out  with a VAC
relay  !!    Caps  will charge right  up to max B+  

###  Then, with vac relay present,  it's  a snap to  toggle between..."22
ohm resistor in line.. or OUT  of line"   I haven't tried the vac relay part
..yet.... but did install a  25 ohm, 225 watt, WW  between  FWB..and
B+ caps.... and V  regulation goes to hell..fast.  The bigger the load,
the worse it  gets.  Which is exactly what PSUD  predicts. 

## The test is  repeatable.   Try it yourself [with a big load... like
either key  down  1.5 kw out cxr... OR... just plane SSB.]  It's lousy
either  mode..with that 25 ohm resistor installed.  

later.... Jim   VE7RF 






Hope all the columns line  up.

73
Gary   K4FMX

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