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Re: [Amps] The transformer rosetta stone (Gary Smith)

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] The transformer rosetta stone (Gary Smith)
From: Manfred Mornhinweg <manfred@ludens.cl>
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:17:04 +0000
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Gary,

While I don't know any of the specific transformers you mention, I will try to clear up your questions in a general way.

I always thought the KVA came from V x I

Yes, that's correct. The problem is what's taken as a limit. Temperature rise, efficiency, voltage drop, or what.

> so if that's the way it is,
I'm interpreting my old transformer to be 3360 KVA CCS and the other Dahl to be 3060 VAC CCS.

That's correct.

If that's the case the Dahls have less cojones than the stock transformers but I know that's not the case, the Dahl was definitely a better performer than the stock transformer was.

OK. Let's have a go at it:

A transformer doesn't have a strict, brick-wall-style power limit. As you load it harder, it will deliver more power. The output voltage will drop as you increase the load. The efficiency, which starts at zero with zero load, will first rise, reach a maximum, and then it will start to drop too. The heating will increase as you increase the load, first at a low rate, then ever faster.

The manufacturer has to decide what exactly he will take as the power limit he will rate for a given transformer. In many cases this rating will be the highest power the transformer can give continuously (CCS!) without burning out. This limit depends a lot on the expected ambient temperature, and on the highest temperature the insulating materials used in the transformer can survive. So, a transformer using high temp materials can be rated for a higher power than one that uses low temp materials, all other things being exactly the same. And transformer insulation materials vary in their temperature specs from about 100 to over 220 degrees Celsius! Note that this high temp transformer will electrically behave just like the low temp one, at any given load. That means that at their full ratings (higher for the high temp one), the high temp transformer will have worse behavior in terms of voltage drop and efficiency than the low temp one has at it's own (lower) full ratings. Maybe this explains in part your observation about the better performance of the Dahl transformer.

Then there is the already hinted question of ambient temperature. Are all those transformers rated at the same temperature? A transformer that works in free open air in a room can be pushed to higher power than the exact same transformer operating inside a cabinet, where the air will be hotter. But if there is a fan in that cabinet, blowing a sharp stream of air over the transformer, its power rating will skyrocket!

And then there is the question of lifetime. Borderline high temperature won't quickly kill a transformer, but will do so over time. So the exact same transformer, operating under the exact same conditions, will have different power ratings depending on its rated MTBF (mean time before failure). In simpler words: If a quality manufacturer wants his transformer to last forever and a day, he will rate it for a lower power, and then he can confidently give a lifetime guarantee on it, valid as long as the customer doesn't push the transformer to higher power than that rating.

All this is if we take heating as the limiting factor. But maybe a transformer has to meet stringent specifications regarding voltage stability, or efficiency. In this case the rated power might be lower than the what the thermal side of things would allow.

Now to the matter of size versus power rating: Larger does not always equal more powerful. There are big differences in the quality of different formulations of silicon steel. Also a transformer can be optimized for continuous high power operation, or it can be optimized to have a lower loss while idling. In the latter case it will have a lower power rating, but will be more efficient in ham linear amp service, where a transformer spends far more time idling than delivering full power.

All these factors can combine in many different ways. So in your case, having a smaller transformer rated at about 4kVA and a larger one rated at only about 3kVA, it's perfectly possible that the smaller one uses high flux density steel, high temperature insulation, and is optimised for true CCS at full power, and perhaps expects forced air cooling, while the larger, lower power rated one might use lower flux density steel, or simply be wound to use lower flux density in a material designed for high flux density (that improves idling losses very much), it can be optimized for typical ham radio use (this is not in conflcit with giving a CCS power rating - any transformer has both a CCS and an ICAS rating, regardless for which service it's optimized), and maybe the larger transformer is rated to work in a hotter environment, or simply is designed and rated for a longer service life.

I stress again that I don't know the specific transformers you mentioned, so I cannot even start to guess which of all these possibilities apply to them. But surely at least a few do.

This isn't making sense to me.

I hope it does now.

Manfred

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