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Re: [Amps] Audio/RF compression

To: "'Mark - G4FPH'" <g4fph@mjha.co.uk>, <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Audio/RF compression
From: "Ken Durand" <N4zed@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 18:02:47 -0500
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
I've been using WebSDR for over a year now....great service. When running a net 
on 75 meters you can watch the propagation change over the course of a couple 
of hours in the early morning. I'm on the east coast and its finny sometimes 
that a signal is better in California than on the east coast, but we knew that. 
Some of the stations come in better on the Birmingham receiver, some on the NJ 
receiver and then some on the California receiver. Great fun. 

Back to amps...

Ken
N4zed

-----Original Message-----
From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark - G4FPH
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Audio/RF compression

We're very lucky in my part of UK to have access to a number of WebSDR 
receivers (ref. www.websdr.org) that cover the 160 and 80 metre bands that I 
most often use.

When ragchewing on SSB, I have moved from headphone monitoring my transmitted 
signal picked up locally on a separate receiver to headphone monitoring my 
signal on a WebSDR at 30, or 40, miles distant. Forget QSK, this is full 
'listen through' A kind of single-frequency duplex working!

Working another station, who has a similar strength of signal into the WebSDR, 
it's possible for me and the other station to jam our transmitters on and hold 
a conversation similar to you would do on the telephone. Of course, the 
'sidetone' level coming back off the remote receiver is louder than desirable, 
but it's perfectly possible to tell when you are doubling and shut up promptly.

Latency is certainly an issue. The feed coming back from the remote WebSDR is 
probably 300 ms delayed wrt local mic. audio. After some practice, I've trained 
myself to work with this, with only the occasional stumble over words.

When I use my SDR TX,  there's some more latency to account for, which 
increases the risk of doubling, especially in a break-in style net. My brain 
can still cope though.

For those here on Amps. that have not yet discovered the joys of WebSDR, I 
strongly suggest you take a look. Forget the 'TX Monitor' function on your 
transceiver and toss your monitor scope in the bin. If you've ever wondered 
what your signal really sounds like in another persons shack, well, it's as 
good as being there and hearing and seeing 'live', for yourself. Yes, your 
transmit audio really is that muddy, your RF feedback is severe and your signal 
is splattering like a cows behind! Of course, none of that has and would ever 
apply to the carefully designed and operated stations of Amps. members'.

Have fun!

Regards,

Mark.

⁣----------------------------
Mark Hill - G4FPH
www.g4fph.net
www.160m.net
Sent from my mobile
--------------------------------- ​

On 12 Jan 2017, 20:59, at 20:59, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com> wrote:
>
>
>On 1/12/2017 2:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
>> Latency becomes an issue when main loudspeakers are 30+ feet over a 
>> stage and further displaced side to side, and spill sound to the 
>> stage, often in the range of 30-40 msec. This drives musicians nuts, 
>> and is part of the reason large and complex stage monitor systems are 
>> used. Performers hear themselves undelayed (or minimally delayed) at 
>> levels higher than the leaked sound from the main system. Originally 
>> this was done with big speakers on the stage floor; now it is far 
>> more commonly done with miniature in-ear headphones connected to 
>> stereo UHF receivers.
>
>It's particularly acute with vocalists who need to sing *in time* with 
>the instrumentalists. Unfortunately, it is impossible when using 
>electronic instruments (guitars, keyboards, etc.) that have no acoustic 
>output!  It is even worse for keyboard players, etc.
>to press the key and hear no sound for 100 ms or more (think about a CW 
>keyer with the sidetone delayed by one dit time or more).  Thus the 
>need for either "foldback" speakers on the stage or "in ear"
>monitors.
>
>For another worst case situation, consider the amateur vocalist asked 
>to sing the National Anthem at a NFL or MLB game.  Without practice and 
>proper local monitor (foldback), it is totally impossible as the 
>spillover from the stands will completely kill the performance.
>
>DSP can do some great things but it can often be like trying to keep a 
>symphony orchestra together when the members are spread from the 50 
>yard line around to the opposite 50 yard line and the percussion is in 
>the opposite end zone.
>
>73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
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