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To: "James F LaPorta" <n1cc@jlaporta.com>,"Robert Shohet" <kq2m@earthlink.net>
From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt@mts.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:57:28 -0500
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
It seems Bob is merely talking about a distinction for reporting purposes,
not in changing that ARRL DX is about the world working W and VE (almost
like a QSO party for Canada and the U.S.).

I don't think I have a problem with that, although from my perspective, I'm
not sure how great an advantage Canadian phone bands (actually, we have no
subbands any more) really is, to me.

I see it being an advantage for VY2, VO1 and VE1, but propagation into VE4
makes ARRL DX largely an S&P contest from here anyway. Unless you're talking
75, in which case there is NO propagation.

If the proposal is to make VE become like all the other non-U.S. countries
participating, fine. But be careful what you wish for. You might just get
it. For if that were the case, and VE only had to work W, then VE4 and
VE5 -- and possibly VE6 (VE6JY, at least), would then become the powerhouses
in this contest. It would wipe out the PEI factor and make this area a
hotbed of contesting activity.

Our skip zones on pretty much all bands are just right that at the top of
the cycle, we can run Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Indiana and
New York as well as or better than W1s can run Europe. And certainly better
than Europeans can run US. (That's a large part of why, for the past four
years, VE4GV has been and remains the low-power SS record holder.)

If the corollary to that proposal is to make WP3R, WP2Z and KH7X compete as
Ws, again, be wary of what you seek. For reasons that should be obvious.

There might be some advantages to a change in reporting structure, but I'm
not sure Americans would like VE to suddenly become DX. If I'm wrong, BRING
IT ON! It would certainly make ARRL DX more fun for us VE4s.

73, kelly

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James F LaPorta" <n1cc@jlaporta.com>
To: "Robert Shohet" <kq2m@earthlink.net>
Cc: <CQ-Contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 4:10 PM

> Bob:
> You are 99.999% correct!  If KH6 and KL7 are ARRL DX entities, so is VE.
They should be moved immediately to that status.  Since RAC is no longer a
direct entity of ARRL, and is IARU equal to ARRL that is another precedent.
> Come to think of it over the past few years they have really behaved like
another country, which in fact they are.
> My vote is absolutely YES! Move VE and their outlying pieces to be the DX
that they are.
> If we can't do that --- in other words too many people object, then lets
move KH6, KL7, KP2, KP4, et al back as part of the US and not DX ... its
even more equalilzing, but not as logical as moving VE to DX status.
> Since I am not a TOP of the pile these days, I have no agenda ... other
than feeling that it needs to be a level playing field, and it's not today.
> 73, Jim N1CC
> Robert Shohet <kq2m@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> I am very curious as to the prevailing opinion and wisdom,
> (or lack thereof), of counting the VE stations in with the US
> stations in the ARRLDX contests.
> While some would say that the VE's enjoy an advantage as to
> rarity of section vs. the much more common and high density US sections,
> I am more concerned with the incredible disparity and
> advantage offered as to the usable operating frequencies for the VE's
> vs the US stations on SSB in DX contests.
> Nowhere was this stunning advantage more apparent than in the year's SSB
> ARRLDX Contest, where several thousand stations were cram-packed into the
> 14.150-14.350 madness with the crusty nets, SSTV'ers and other "services",
> while the VE's enjoyed essentially clear run frequencies below 14.150 and
> 21.200.
> For example, VY2ZM spent almost the entire contest BELOW 14.150 and
> 21.200. If you look at Jeff's great 20 meter score, 2100+ q's!, you can
> how
> much that helped. I listened a few times to the huge pileups calling him
> a
> PERFECTLY CLEAR freq. BELOW 14.150 where he spent most of the day.
> If you were required to operate above 14.150, like all the US stations,
> day
> was hardly as pleasant or score as great, between insane levels of
> and assorted
> qrm and qrn. Needless to say, US station had that kind of opportunity on
> or 20.
> But that advantage also extends to the ability to work EU DIRECT on 40!,
> largely free from BC stations, and also to 80, where, once again,
> frequencies are available for Canadian use to work EU stations.
> Yes, we can work some DX direct on 80, if we can muscle out the other EU
> SA stations, and yes, we can now work some EU direct above 7.150, but that
> isn't
> the same thing, and it certainly does not make up for the astounding
> advantage on
> 20 and 15 and advantage on 40 and 80.
> We are talking about the same kind of operating advantage and disparity
> that
> is like comparing Novices to Extra's, except that while you CAN upgrade
> to Extra and gain more frequencies, you CAN NOT upgrade further to gain
> Canadian phone bands!
> Lest you think this is sour grapes on my part, I can tell you that I
> consider Jeff, K1ZM
> a good friend and have known him for 30+ years! I have great respect for
> his station
> building and operating abilities and he has been kind enough to help me
> with
> emergency antenna work on several occasions. I am very happy that Jeff has
> been
> enjoying his great station and can honestly say that he would be silly not
> to make use
> of every operating advantage afforded him and other VE's under these
> and
> outdated rules. Right now, with the HUGE disparity in operating
> frequencies,
> IMO, comparing the contest scores of VE stations and US stations
> together in the same category is like comparing Apples to Basketballs!
> In summary, I am saying that, IMO opinion, it is high-time to separate the
> VE's from
> the W's for scoring and awards purposes until such time as we have
> reasonably similar
> frequencies to operate on. Plus, WE ARE SEPARATE COUNTRIES! and should
> be treated as such.
> I am very interested to read what other contesters think about this
> situation.
> I think that it is time to change the rules. What do YOU think?
> 73
> Bob KQ2M
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