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Re: [CQ-Contest] SSB in CW band

To: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt@mts.net>,"Ron Notarius W3WN" <wn3vaw@verizon.net>,"'CQ Contest Reflector'" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] SSB in CW band
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 00:21:38 -0000
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Kelly there is a small fly in your ointment, actually there are 10 or 15 but 
I'll just point out one. Somewhere around 7265 there is a nightly net. A DX 
station would most likely not hear them because they have poor antenna's, by 
our standards, and don't run high power, again by our standards. The DX 
station says he is listening on 7265. Guess what happens next,,,, everyone 
jumps on 7265 and no one listens there first. This happens over and over 
again on 40. Contesters have a mindset that says for 48 hours they own 40 
meters and can do with it as they please without regard to anyone/anything 
else. It has been getting worse and worse over the years and this year 
reached a new all-time low.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kelly Taylor
  To: Ron Notarius W3WN ; 'CQ Contest Reflector'
  Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:42
  Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] SSB in CW band

  To me, the truth lies somewhere between Joe's and Ron's viewpoints.

  Joe isn't advocating trampling on anybody, merely saying that an open
  frequency is by definition, open. If nobody's using it, why can't he? If
  someone else wants to stake their claim first, by starting a ragchew or
  whatever, then Joe will have to find somewhere else. Isn't that your 

  Where Joe's position gets a little dicey is when his pileup gets too wide
  and starts elbowing other users out of the way. He can't be held 
  for his callers' inabilities to set their VFO properly, but it does speak 
  why a run station can generate ill will at times toward contesters,
  particularly amongst non-contesters who think they're adhering to the

  However, the net result of Ron's viewpoint is this: if you can't find a
  space according to the bandplan, go away.

  That's a little too extreme, in my view. I don't think we want to get into
  the business of telling any amateur that he has to go fishing instead of
  using a frequency that's perfectly open, perfectly accessible under the
  rules of his licence.

  High levels of activity are a good thing. To think otherwise is to begin 
  write the epitaph for amateur radio.

  Also, to restrict access to 40 meters because the frequencies allotted 
  the band plan aren't available, while leaving swaths untouched, only
  provides argumentative fodder for those who would argue against expanding 
  meters. Is that what we want?

  73, kelly
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <wn3vaw@verizon.net>
  To: "'CQ Contest Reflector'" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
  Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] SSB in CW band

  > Joe, your reply truly saddens me.  But I will give you this much credit;
  > unlike many of the others who seem to feel as you do, at least you will
  > stand up (metaphorically speaking) and say so publicly.
  > It is obvious that I'm not going to convince you otherwise.  The day may
  > come that the contest rules do get changed, or worse more and more
  > administrations impose by law band plans because some of us couldn't 
  > by voluntary band plans in any form.  I hope it doesn't, but I can see 
  > happening.
  > What is really unfortunate is that the voluntary band plans were 
  > by amateurs in other countries as guidelines so as to avoid unneeded
  > governmental regulation.  What you are saying is that since there's no
  > regulation, you can ignore the band plan.  Not only do you thus invite
  > and further regulation or re-regulation, but (IMHO) you thus choose not 
  > use good amateur practices.
  > Must ethics be legislated to be self-enforced?
  > Now, I was ready to shoot back a lengthy rebuttal, but outside of these
  > remarks, I'm not going to bore the others on the reflector.  I think my
  > views by now should be pretty clear.  So out of curiousity, let me ask 
  > something:
  > Have you ever been trampled on by people participating in a contest that
  > you're not?
  > I had it happen to me.  I'll spare you the details.  Suffice to say, it
  > me a slightly jaundiced view of the lengths that some will go to, to 
  > one more "new" one.
  > And with that, I will let your words speak for themselves.
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:w4tv@subich.com]
  > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 8:36 PM
  > To: 'Ron Notarius W3WN'; 'CQ Contest Reflector'
  > Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] SSB in CW band
  > > 2.  My analogy is flawed?  Hmmm.  40 is taken over by
  > > contesters, so if you don't want to contest, go to another band.
  > > That's not "another route through town," to play on the analogy,
  > > that's "another town."
  > Yes, your analogy is flawed.  Another band is not "another town"
  > it's another road, perhaps a road less traveled, but another
  > road to making QSOs.  In the case of 40, if you're looking for
  > domestic QSOs, 80 is a good alternate, if a somewhat longer path
  > is your thing 30 meters is generally better than 40 any time.
  > > Joe, I think it's very clear that you believe that if it's
  > > not prohibited by law, it's allowed, that might makes right,
  > > that anything goes if it's not illegal.
  > Absolutely, if it is not prohibited by law it is permitted.  Laws
  > are made to provide objective rules that apply equally to everyone.
  > Your "bandplans" say if I want to contest and the rest of the band
  > is full up with broadcasters and 5,000 contesters, I can't do it on
  > 7022 but if I want to rag chew with some 5 WPM Extra across town
  > using a KW I can?  That's absurd.
  > If you want to prohibit a behavior for "the greater good" convince
  > your bleeding heart regulators to make the behavior illegal.
  > > And thus, you are one of the examples of what the non-contesters
  > > are complaining about.  I'm sorry to have to say that; frankly, I
  > > thought better of you.
  > Non-contesters have no more right to preferential access to a
  > frequency than SSTV does to 14.230 or Jack Gerritsen had to the
  > VHF/UHF and pubic service spectrum on the West Coast.  Amateur
  > frequencies are not "assigned channels" like the commercial
  > service - they are there on a first come first served basis.  I'm
  > not advocating intentional interference and never will but if a
  > frequency I'm licensed to use is open and I'm looking for a "hole"
  > in the band, you'd better believe I'll use it and not leave it for
  > someone else who might be engaged in a different kind of amateur
  > activity.
  > There is nothing wrong with that behavior and any non-contester who
  > can't understand the concept of first come first served has not
  > read the back of his/her license recently.
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