Gedas should be congratulated on his work. No single working of a mult
can be considered damning. We could all innocently 'find' a mult that
just happened to have been spotted. It is the PATTERN which is, and
recognising this clearly takes time and careful analysis of the whole
log. Yes, it is possible that those behaviours which flag up likely
cluster use may be changed or masked and like you, I don't know what
sort of window of time could be regarding as 'suspicious'. I have never
really thought about it before. What I have witnessed, however, are the
Whilst operating in a M/M environment in CQWW and grabbing spots as soon
as they appeared, finding my self REPEATEDLY competing with another
station who subsequently claimed an unassisted entry.
Whilst operating SOAB unassisted, being called by groups of stations in
bursts, usually late in contests, most of whom were dupes. This usually
is the result of my call being busted in a spot. On one occasion I was
called by a very prominent Eu SOAB entrant, who claimed unassisted but
who was subsequently disqualified, closely followed by another top
contester who was assisted, suspected I was a bust and confirmed so with
You wrote ''When you are Assisted you _MAY_ (or you MAY NOT, when you
don't want) use spotting assistance from DX Cluster (not from physical
human). And you still remain just one "guy with his
radio".''.........but surely, when you use spotting assistance you are
one guy with your radio plus all the other guys feeding info into the
cluster? Your category is determined by your practice for the entire
event. Surely you are not suggesting that if you only grab a few spots
on Sunday night when things are a bit slow, you are not really assisted
because the rest of the time you were unassisted?? Perhaps I
You also said 'But when Single Op uses cluster it's kind of
shameful...'.....It is ONLY shameful if you do so and subsequently claim
you did not. A propos some of the other posts, my own previous
contribution to this debate was in no way intended to denigrate the
assisted category. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the
cluster, if that is what you want to do. Assisted is a perfectly valid
category with its own difficulties and challenges. It's just not for me,
thank you very much, as it removes one of the best 'buzzes' in
contesting, finding and working those mults. (Pile ups are fun too!). My
point was that I don't want to be 'forced' to use the cluster in order
to remain competitive. Rather I do what Gedas has done and don't enter
contests like WAEDC.
Keith GM4YXI (GM7V)
[mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Yuri VE3DZ
Sent: 18 December 2007 15:46
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cheating with packet
LY3BA:"As I can see you and some others mixing up two very different
For me is absolutelly clear - ASSISTED means that you are not SINGLE
OPERATOR ("just a boy and his radios"., as K0HB said), you getting huge
support from hundreds operators around."
Gedas, IMO you are totally wrong. When you are Assisted you _MAY_ (or
you MAY NOT, when you don't want) use spotting assistance from DX
Cluster (not from physical human). And you still remain just one "guy
with his radio".
MULTI OP means that there are more than one "guy" operating. In this
calss "one guy" may run and the other "guy" may use huge support from
hundreds operators around" to work multipliers.
I see a huge difference here.
Sounds like when Multi Op stations use DX Clusters - it's sort of O.K.
But when Single Op uses cluster it's kind of shameful...
What if a guy would work a multiplier not after 5 minutes after spot,
but after, let say 22 minutes after the DX was spotted? Would it
necessarily mean that actual guy found it on his own?
I don't think so.
What time fram do you think we need to establish to mark that actual a
guy a packet cheater? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 20 minutes?
"Real guys don't use no stinky clusters..." :-))
When I was at ZF2NT in the ARRL DX 2003, we did not need not only DX
cluster, but even a second rig ( we won M/S category). It was just run,
run, run... I believe same situation is when you operate for instance
P4 or 8P...
Don't get me wrong. I am not offering to get rid of un-assisted category
anymore, since a lot of (old) guys still want to be on their own with
their radios. All I'm saying is maybe we should pay more attention to
assisted categories (awards, recognition), and that might reduce DX
Cluster cheating in some way.
73 Yuri VE3DZ
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