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Re: [CQ-Contest] Log Checking Deadlines

To: "'Bauer, Scott'" <sbauer@syrres.com>, "'CQ-Contest'" <CQ-Contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Log Checking Deadlines
From: "W0MU Mike Fatchett" <w0mu@w0mu.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:23:30 -0700
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>

First of all here is initial replay to Tree and the reflector:
I am all for publishing the date the log was received.  I think it is a
great idea!

There are very few places in the world where there is no internet access.
C'mon folks get those logs in.

I would support shorter log deadlines.

Those that are going to have a problem with a delaine (ed: Deadline) can
make a formal request for an extension of X number of days with a REAL
reason for a delayed log.  If there was a way to further scrutinize a log
any late logs should be looked at far more closely especially if they end up
being a winning entry. 

Log massaging/manipulation needs to go. 
{end quote}

Other than log manipulation where did I mention cheating or even imply it?

What I have noticed is a bunch of people that apparently have a guilty

Any late log should be checked very carefully IMHO.  30 or 45 days is an
eternity.  A week after a 4 hour contest is a long time too.  I can create a
Cabrillo log in N1MM in less than a minute after the contest.  What is the
hold up?  I see no issue in checking the log over at the end for obvious
mistakes in the form of typos or fixing things that had been noted during a
run.  Some people have a problem with that.  I do try to fix the log during
the contest but sometimes that is not practical.  Before the influx of
computers into the hobby you needed that time to dupe your logs or re-dupe
them, make sure they were legible and get them in the mail.

I was one of the Ops at V47M in the late 80's before computer logging.  We
operated both the ARRL DX CW and SSB contests and made around 11,000
contacts on SSB and about 5k on CW.  We also spent some vacation time on the
Island and once we got back we had just a short time to dupe 15k in contacts
and get the logs mailed.  We needed that time.  Our logs were never late and
we never considered asking for an extension.  If I operated from there today
my logs would be submitted almost immediately.  There are very few logs
submitted in the wrong format or in paper these days.  I can understand
getting busy etc but it is not like it takes hours to create a Cabrillo file
and email it off to the sponsor.

What Tree mentioned is that there are a number of top competitors that can
never seem to get their logs in before the deadline.  I know who one of
these people are and have never received a good reason why they are always
late.  It does make me wonder.  

Honestly, what is good excuse for not getting a log in prior to deadline?  

There is no doubt in my mind that people are downloading the FCC database
and any other database of calls and are checking their logs against these
lists looking for errors.  This is cheating in my book.

I also think that we provide too much information on the 3830 list.
Information like section, zone etc should not be shown until after the
deadline.  Once again another way for someone to massage a log.

Callsign databases and computerized 3830 listing were not a part of
contesting 20 years ago.  Yes there was the on air 3830 but it was nowhere
as complete as the listings we see today.  Critical log and callsign
information was almost impossible to get after the fact.

After every major contest I operate in I will always get a few emails asking
me where I was.  I respond that I will be happy to tell them when the log
deadline has passed.

Submitting a log late or at the last possible moment may not indicate some
type of nefarious behavior it just might.

I would not be so willing to extend the same person a log extension over and
over again.  You better have a good excuse or else you will find your log in
the checklog pile.

I do agree that you should be able to submit your logs after the deadlines
for checklog purposes.   

Mike W0MU

-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bauer, Scott
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:14 PM
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Log Checking Deadlines


What are you saying Tree.  Log submitted near the deadline must mean
cheating?  W0MU you seem to agree with Tree.  KR2Q I think you've got it
right.   VE7FO you have it right too !  We have something in common.

If a contest sponsor says 30 days it means 30 days, why sweat it ?  One week
into the 30 days, I'm not even thinking about submitting my log.  If it says
1 week then it is 1 week.  Do a 1 week deadline for CQWW next year and I bet
you get 2000 late logs.  Then what do you do?  DQ them all?  That'll work.
You will get a multitude of late logs for years and years and years if you
change from 30+days to 7 days.  Similar thing happens if you dump the 599
from the report, you will have 10 years of confusion, confusion that may
never go away.  Change to grid squares, you risk killing the contest.  You
might never survive that change.

Fact is:  I am about 50:50 about missing the Sprint deadline, that is why
you see me post a score and then it doesn't show up in the listings.  Do a 1
week submission for all contests, and I bet that I miss a lot of deadlines
not just the Sprint.  How do I post but not submit the log at the same time?
I usually post the score from work on Monday, and get around to submitting
the log whenever I get to it.

Noting the date the log is submitted, why?  An attempt to needlessly
embarrass someone and subject them to the mob that will think they are
cheaters?  Great idea, NOT !  I consistently send in my log near the
deadline for no other reason that I didn't get to it earlier.

Massage a log ?  No I don't and you can check my UBN/NIL report as proof.  I
make all the common errors.  .....  Now that is an idea, make everyone's
UBN/NIL report public access, so we can mock out the guys who have high
error rates.  I'm kidding don't do that either.

Bonus points for early submission?  You've got to be kidding.  Do that and
count me out.

And the person that mentioned paper logs.

I have known of paper logs in at least one major contest not getting
reviewed for dupes and such, how about that for a contest sponsor ?
Electronic log you get checked, paper log no checking,  Sound fair to you ?
How do I know this has happened ?  Because in a certain contest, that I
won't mention so as not to embarrass the contest sponsor, my local
competitor sent in a paper log and mine was electronic, mine got checked his
did not.  We swapped positions in the standings, and the difference was the
inconsistently applied log checking.  Electronic log checked, paper log
unchecked.  How do I know he sent in a paper log?  He told me.

I have not operated that contest seriously since.

Note that this was more than a few years ago, buy hey checking is checking,
not checking a paper log is rude, unprofessional, and an embarrassment to
the contest sponsor.  But in this case the sponsor did not care when I
approached them on the subject.  Basically told me where to put it.  I
caught them with their pants down, and they chose NOT to do the right thing.
But it is over and done with and I still get the magazine.

Tree, another rude contest sponsor thing:  Submit your Sprint log late
(after the week), the robot seems refuse to accept the log.  If you want a
check log for more complete log checking purposes, then why don't you accept
late logs as check logs ?  And reply as such?  I've missed quite a few
Sprint deadlines because of the 1 week deadline.

Why do I consistently submit my logs near the deadline Tree ?  Sorry Tree
I'm not trying to pick on you here.  Really.   But you need to know why us
deadbeats are not really deadbeats.  Or maybe we are deadbeats but don't
want to admit it.  I guess VE7FO and I are in denial.

One or more of the following apply:  I'm lazy, busy, don't have internet
access on the logging computer, not thinking of submitting a log at 0000Z or
whenever the contest ends, I go to sleep or watch TV or whatever after the
contest, I have kids, I do other things besides contest, it takes too long
to log into my internet email provider, my kids are on the computer all the
time so my access time is limited, did I mention I'm lazy ?, etc  ...

N3LI quote:  "Fact is, I can disqualify anyone who I don't like".  N3LI you
are a contest log checker ?  WOW, what a thing to say !  Hope you weren't
serious, and I hope that you don't do any CQ contests or ARRL contests.  If
I were CQ or ARRL, I would quickly dump you as a log checker just for saying
that.  I figure that you would never do this, but you know that appearances
will get you, just read this reflector.

So, I admit I am one of the people who send in their logs at the last
minute.  I am trying to get better but old habits are hard to change.  I've
done pretty well this year though.  But I see my CQ 160m CW log has not been
sent in yet, same for VHF SS.  Oh well.

73 Scott W2LC

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