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Re: [CQ-Contest] Driving at 4AM

To: "'Michael Coslo'" <mjc5@psu.edu>, "'CQ-Contest com'" <CQ-Contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Driving at 4AM
From: "W0MU Mike Fatchett" <w0mu@w0mu.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:09:01 -0700
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
And this entire conversation started with comments about a number of
perennial top finishers sending in late, yes LATE logs.  Not logs at the
deadline, past the deadline.

There should probably be separate discussions of various sub plots that came
out of this like:

Should log deadlines be moved up
Should logs be accepted after the deadline and qualify for placement, i.e.
not checklog. 
Should sponsors publish the date the log was received

If you are not cheating, I see no reason to get up in arms about it.  Those
that cheat will continue to do so, however I think we need to be diligent
and attempting to identify and stop cheaters.  

What I find amusing is that Power has been overlooked and passed off with a
wink wink for as long as I can recall and that is a violation of our
license.  Log massaging, rubber clocking, packet, skimmer, etc is not and
gets far more attention.
Mike W0MU

"A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may
never get over." Ben Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael Coslo
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:11 AM
To: CQ-Contest com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Driving at 4AM

On Feb 6, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
> I have only been in a few contests and I generally have submitted my 
> log near the deadline.  Why?
> 1) I didn't think it mattered when the log was submitted as long as it 
> was before the deadline.

While logs and police issues might be an interesting if flawed analogy, I
just gotta say it.....

Guys and gals, we really should ease up the paranoia business. If a log
submitted near the deadline date deserves suspicion, extra checking because
we think that people who submit their logs near the deadline are cheating,
then we're starting down a path that ends up with demanding live internet
logging during the contest, no exceptions. No connection? Tough - find
something else to do that weekend.

> Note that it doesn't equal "guilt".  Just additional scrutiny..


If extra scrutiny is warranted, then why? Is there a shown correlation
between submission date and cheating? Where is it, I'd love to see the

And of course, the thing that proves the actual silliness of the "people who
submit near the deadline are cheating" hypothesis is that if that were the
actual case, you can bet that anyone who is actually cheating is going to
send in their logs early.

> 2) At the end of a contest, I spend a few minutes writing my "after 
> action"
> report.  I'll read this next year before the next contest.  I'm hoping 
> the refresher will help me do better next time.  Anyway, after writing 
> the notes to myself, I shut the rig off and get back to reality.  
> Submitting the log is just an administrative detail that can be 
> attended to at any time.
> Now that I know (from this group) that it helps the log checkers if I 
> submit early I'll submit my log as soon as I'm done with the contest.  
> It helps them and doesn't hurt me so why not?

If you send in your log right after the contest, that is great. If not, then
any time up to the deadline is also fine.

That there are advantages for the checkers is true - although not huge, the
wish for early log submission is more one of temperament on the part of the
person who gets to check the logs. As I noted in my original reply to Tree
when he started the original topic, my wife has a similar outlook - she
considers a half hour early to be a half hour late. We have truly showed up
at places an hour early. I used to be that way myself, but over time, I
found that it is not possible to change human nature.

Quick rough stat:

I get around half the logs for my particular venue in the first twelve hours
after the contest.
Another 20 percent in the first week.
Another 20 percent the second and third week.
Last 10 percent the last week.

Mobiles tend to be later (not late) submissions, as there is a lot of extra
work involved in a mobile entry.(in our case at least)

But seriously, to assume that people who submit their logs later in the
process are likely to be cheating,  and should be treated that way, is
disingenuous at best. It is certainly insulting to the decent honest Ops who
haven't done a thing wrong, yet are accused as likely cheaters, just by
their submission date that is within contest guidelines.

-73 de Mike N3LI -

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