[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [CQ-Contest] Driving at 4AM

To: "W0MU Mike Fatchett" <w0mu@w0mu.com>, <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Driving at 4AM
From: "David Kopacz" <david.kopacz@aspwebhosting.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:15:54 -0600
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
No, I have not dismissed Dave's analogy. The RECORD of a QSO belongs to
both parties in the QSO, but the record of what I did next, is mine and
mine only.

You fail to see the significance of individual operating style and
decisions, such band changes, antenna directions, etc. Everyone seems to
think the individual contact record is the only important information in
the log. There is much more. Stop focusing on the individual contact and
focus on the event as a whole.

What business is it of yours what band changes I made and when I made
them? What business is it of yours, when I decide a rate on one band is
unacceptable and to what band I decide to move? What business is it of
yours, when I discovered a long path opening and turned my antennas?

Your interpretation of the differences between PJ2T and 6Y1V are
speculation. Having been there to witness the event first hand, I can
assure you that without that information, we would NOT have done better.
Sure, we might have made a few different decisions, but none that would
have led to a better outcome.

While I agree "There are far more reasons that will factor into a win or
loss than knowing the rate from a previous contest", that doesn't mean
the information has no value. It's one piece of the puzzle. If you went
to 6Y1V, it is highly unlikely that you would know that between time A
and time B there is a very short LP opening to the pacific on band X. I
know when they are, but you might not. So, if you are competing with me
from ZF, you might simply take a look at my logs and note when I am
working my certain multipliers that you keep missing. How is that fair?

Just because we still lost to PJ2T doesn't mean the information wasn't
helpful. Having that data SURELY made us more competitive. Ask anyone on
the team.

In your statement about your St Kitts operation, you admit that
analyzing data helped you improve. No, I am not saying the magazines
should stop printing scores, but if that data helped you, and you
discovered you kept missing certain multipliers that we were getting,
imagine how my logs could help you. Your own statements prove my point,
without speculation.

Your last statement is the one I understand the least. "If you don't
like the rules don't operate."

First, it's one rule, not plural. Why should I not operate because I
disagree with a single rule. Rules can be changed. I believe the first
step in changing this rule is to analyze it, discuss it and evaluate its
effect over time, both negative and positive. Certainly ignoring it or
quitting is not the answer.

David ~ KY1V

-----Original Message-----
From: W0MU Mike Fatchett [mailto:w0mu@w0mu.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:41 PM
To: David Kopacz; cq-contest@contesting.com
Cc: wn3vaw@verizon.net
Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Driving at 4AM

"So far I have yet to hear one compelling argument why logs should not
open. Because I don't like it doesn't fly in my book."

Quite simply, they are MY logs. The information contained within them
when I make band changes, how often they are made and at what times they
made is MY strategy. This information >is important to winning a
contest. No
one disputes that. This information is quite easily reviewed with little
effort by plugging MY LOG into a contest program and exporting the

Actually Like Dave K1TTT said a log is actually a combined effort.
you have already dismissed his analogy.  Your side of it is yours.  So

>In the 2007 ARRL SSB International DX contest, one of my guests brought
band summary chart for PJ2T. I was curious how he obtained the
and why he brought it, but considering this individual, I simply assumed
knew Geoff and had asked for it. Since I wasn't aware of the open logs
issue, I had no idea he simply downloaded it from "the public log".

>During the entire contest, he repeatedly referred to it checking to see
we were "on target" with Q rates per band. I also believe the night crew
used it to determine when to make band changes. At all times during the
contest, we were ahead of the PJ2T 2006 rates according to this
Interestingly, we still finished 2nd, right behind PJ2T as they also
exceeded their previous years score. Nevertheless, without that
we had no idea where we should have been with regards to rates and rates

>Was it fair that we had this information? In my opinion, it wasn't. For
it felt like cheating. Why should my team benefit from the hard work and
skill gained by the repeatedly successful PJ2T team?

Did you really benefit?  Maybe you thought you might benefit.  You still
lost to them.  Maybe if you did not have this information the outcome
have been better.  While a log from a previous contest could be useful
the perspective of that contest it did not serve you.  Could it be that
ops in question saw that you were ahead and let off the gas a bit.
not?  I would argue that too much time was spent on what they were doing
not on what you were doing.  A 10m opening that happened last year may
be there the next time.  Maybe your 10m conditions were worse but your
conditions were better but you were on the wrong band.  There are far
reasons that will factor into a win or los than knowing the rate from a
previous contest.  Statistics can be very misleading as a log is far
the entire story of what happened at 6Y1V or PJ2T.

Just having their log data does not give an advantage and you just

I operated from ST. Kitts V47 two times competitively in the ARRL DX CW
SSB contests.  The first year we went down we came in 2nd on SSB.  The
time we won.  We took the results that were available from QST and
areas where we could improve.  The first time we had very low antennas
some bands and poor antennas on the low bands.  The next time we
the station and the same 3 operators knew what to expect.  We improved
score greatly.  So I guess QST and CQ should not publish scores, band
breakdown, etc either?  The first time our low band numbers were far
inferior but our other bands were right in line.  It was pretty easy to
what we needed to do.  We also had a time where the 2nd transmitter was
the air because of a communication issue between ops.

You can only take what the band and your station and operators can give
My father taught me something a long time ago about business.  I was
and always concerned more about what the other guy was doing instead of
I could be doing better.  The long and short of it is worry less about
others are doing and more on what you should be doing.

If open logs make the contests even more competitive great!

If the Sponsors feel that posting open logs is good for the contest I
support them.

Open logs in my mind is just another step in making the game better.  I
don't need to convince you of anything as I don't sponsor or check any

Do I trust the log checkers to do the best they can with the tools they
yes.  Open logs is just a new tool in the box.

Do I trust all of the competitors?  Not in your life.  Do I trust most
the competitors? Yes.

Once again look at the FW5FE topband mess to understand the types of
that are in this hobby.  For those that don't know the new rage is when
hear a spot on 160, even if you can't hear the DX you find the stations
come back to and call and call and call and call and hope that you get
the log.  Apparently this has worked too well for some.

Apparently for many it is get in the log or win at any cost.  

I am very sorry that the Ops at 6Y1V will not be recognized for their

If you don't like the rules don't operate.

CQ-Contest mailing list

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>