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Re: [CQ-Contest] Inverse Distance Based Scoring Proposal

To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Inverse Distance Based Scoring Proposal
From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <wn3vaw@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:55:30 -0400
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
While I may have been a touch heavy on the sarcasm, I stand by my comments.

If we?re going to seriously discuss whether or not a change to a distance
based scoring system is a viable and "fairer" option, we should have some
hard evidence that this has the potential to do so.  Not guess work.

IMHO, the simplest and most effective way to do this is to take existing
logs (with the permission of the operators, of course) and perform some
statistical research on them.  Specifically, by taking those logs, assigning
to each station its approximate grid square, and then calculating a new
"alternative" score for the working contest station in question.

Then, and only then, will we have a means of seeing how much of a difference
that distance based scoring could have.  Only an apples-to-apples comparison
can give us a handle as to how much of an impact -- if any -- it will have.
Not guess work that "it ought to."

Of course, any rules change will affect strategies in future contests, from
determining where to go, how to deploy antennas and operators, what bands to
work and when, and a host of other factors.  That goes without saying.  But
to decline out-right to re-examine old results by pre-declaring it
irrelevant based on what you THINK might happen AFTER the rules are changed?
That's just silly.

Are we actually going to overhaul the scoring system without have an actual
clue as to what it's impact will be?

And, just in case anyone is actually interested, I am intrigued by this
idea.  It does appeal to me as making things a little fairer, and by giving
some otherwise unavailable opportunities to those who have location
challenges under the existing rules.  That said, I want to know more.
Intriguing as the idea is, I'm curious as to whether or not it will actually
have a significant impact.  

In short, I'm open to new ideas, and this one is interesting.  But will it
actually work?  There's only two ways to find out.  With all due respect,
AB7E does not seem to want to do any analysis, unless he has a better idea
he hasn't mentioned yet.  

The other way?  Make the change and hope for the best?  What are we, the
federal government?

73, ron w3wn
From: David Gilbert [mailto:xdavid@cis-broadband.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 4:46 PM
To: Ron Notarius W3WN
Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Inverse Distance Based Scoring Proposal

You are WAY over reacting to my comment, but I'll try to make this simple
enough for you to understand.  Checking existing logs for the potential
effect of changing the rules as dramatically as is being discussed here is
like analyzing CQ WPX logs to look for regional imbalances in CQ WW
results.  You might get an answer of sorts but you've added so many other
variables that the result would have questionable validity.

Rant on, Ron.

Dave   AB7E

On 6/25/2011 11:51 AM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote: 
Oh.  So instead of establishing a relative benchmark so that we can at least
try to do an apples-to-apples all-else-being-equal comparison, we're just
going to keep guessing and make assumptions that feel right.

Sure.  That makes sense.  Why bother with research?

Obviously, any significant change in the scoring system will cause
adjustments in strategy.  I thought that was a "given."  And that's not the

I THOUGHT that the question is or was:  Will switching to a grid based (ie
distance based) scoring system significantly alter the scoring, to make the
competition in different regions more "fair" or "balanced"?  

Right.  Why bother to find out?

-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 12:32 PM
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Inverse Distance Based Scoring Proposal

Personally, I don't think that would be a definitive analysis.  I'm 
pretty sure that contest strategies would change dramatically if the 
scoring system changed to a grid based system without country multipliers.

Dave   AB7E

On 6/25/2011 6:48 AM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:

Suggestion:  Will distance-based scoring make a difference and alter the
landscape?  There's one way to find out.  It shouldn't be too hard to
up calls worked with their Maidenhead grid squares (if not exactly then
close enough).  Why not ask some of the top operators to "donate" their
logs, then have a computer program run through and re-calculate their
using the grids as multipliers, and see what you come up with?

It's one thing to guess that it will make a difference.  This way, you can
actually show what the results would have been, all else being equal, if
had scored that way.

73, ron w3wn

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