We need to consider the contest and also possible contests within the
contest as different levels of focus. I found the video about what AA0Z has
done with NodeRed very interesting. Ward Silver mentioned it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OwMKKwDk_w
__________
Stan, K4SBZ
On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 8:04 PM Gerry Hull <gerry@remote.radio> wrote:
> I've had an oar in the pond in all this for quite a period of time.
>
> I was the inventor of the first online live scoreboard, getscores.org.
> That was way back in
> 2006, 19 years ago. See
> https://web.archive.org/web/20071111194139/http://www.getscores.org/ for
> some nostalgia.
> It seems it has caught on quite well, thanks to VA2WA and the guys at
> contestonlinescore.com.
>
> For the longest time, it was sheer blasphamy to share your score with
> others. For some, it still is.
> However, for the majority of us, it has enhanced our hobby tremendously --
> at least for us that enjoy competitive contesting.
>
> Bruce, WA7BNM's 3830scores.com site has become the defacto results
> reporting system. Why? Because it is very old news
> getting results months (or even in some cases, weeks) after the event.
> Anyone who creates a bogus 3830 score is not a valid competitor --
> and at the competition levels where the score really matters -- it might
> change a few percent from claimed after adjudication.
>
> So -- we talk about live scoring. There has been a team working on a
> version of live scoring for some time -- they have had slight
> progress, but none in any way I would term significant. Why is this?
> It's not that they haven't put in significant effort, that is for sure.
> I believe the focus is on the wrong problem: don't try and solve realtime
> score adjudication -- enhance real-time reporting with
> live updates and eye-candy UI that will bring in new audiences. Score
> adjudication is perfect where it's been IMHO -- the people
> who do it for the big contests have been doing it for years, do it well,
> and don't want big changes. I get that. For smaller contests,
> 3830 is the norm.
>
> We can overlay lots of stuff on existing contests. We can create contests
> within contests. Who had the best opening band rate to
> EU from NA? Who is doing better hour-by-hour in CQWW vs their score last
> year. Right now, all the live stuff is simply presented
> as tabular data. That is so 20th century. If you look at the many
> graphical sites supporting POTA, you'll see a lot of eye candy that
> is exciting. Right now, POTA is the hottest thing since sliced bread!
>
> So -- what do we do? I backed away from helping the current live scoring
> project, because I did not buy into it's vision.
> Today, all the data generated by a CQWW, for example, is really TRIVIAL to
> the data processing capabilites of the internet and
> cloud platforms. However, the problem needs to envisioned with a solution
> that fits a different purpose.
>
> Ward, W0AX presented a vision of this a decade (or what it two) ago.
> Nothing really became of it.
> Perhaps we partner with some smart Internet contesters who have a flare for
> real time graphics and come up with some
> compelling content. This should not ruffle the feathers of the the most
> strident radio luddite. The internet has been providing
> data about radio (specifically ham radio) since it's inception.
>
> Yep, everyone can shoot holes at this idea. That's what people do.
> However, as many have said, we are losing more and more
> contesters every day. At some point, there will be many fewer to work.
>
> 73,
>
> Gerry W1VE VE1RM ZF2VE 7Q2T
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 1:41 AM David Gilbert <ab7echo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > A friend of mine (Bob, K7ZB) just sent me a link to a recent video
> > interview of Tom, W2SC (aka 8P5A) done by W1DED. In addition to
> > descriptions of his station and approach to contesting, Tom speculates
> > on where ham radio and contesting in particular might go in the future.
> > He pointed out that whatever happens will most likely be determined by a
> > younger generation that isn't bound by what ham radio is to those of us
> > who have been at it for a while.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-RMIyjSfI
> >
> > His view of the future is very interesting, and I agree that if ham
> > radio survives to any significant extent it will have to change ... and
> > it will likely be changed by a younger generation that comes up with a
> > way to adapt ham radio to something that is more interesting to them.
> >
> > Personally, I've always thought that contesting should figure out how to
> > become more like an online video game:
> >
> > 1. Integrated computer graphics that display participants on a playing
> > field ... Earth or maybe even some simulated world. You could zoom in
> > or zoom out, but the part of the world available to be seen on your
> > screen could be determined by the real time propagation at that moment.
> > To make a contact you'd have to zoom in far enough to see the station
> > you're trying to contact, and the display would show their current
> > frequency. Real time propagation could be derived from actual contacts
> > being made if everyone's computer was connected to a common server ...
> > just like is done with video games. And before anyone says that real
> > time internet connectivity is an issue, keep in mind that it isn't at
> > all problem for the demographic we'd be trying to reach.
> >
> > 2. Multiplayer .... where every participant shows up on the screen at
> > their actual (or simulated) QTH.
> >
> > 3. ACTUAL COMPETITION! Instead of just trying to make the most
> > contacts and finding out at the end how you did, make each contact some
> > sort of competition that gets displayed on the screen ... and have some
> > way of preventing others from making a contact. How that happens would
> > depend upon the context of the particular game, just like there are
> > different video games. But the idea would be to contest each contact in
> > some manner that requires either an offensive action or a defensive one.
> >
> > 4. "Contacts" (whatever the game required for a point) would still
> > purely come via RF ... station to station. The video display and
> > central server would only provide the environment for making the
> > contacts, albeit a hopefully more elaborate and richer environment than
> > whatever we currently picture in our minds while making contacts now.
> >
> > Some people might say that this is actually no different than a video
> > game and that video games have the advantage of a level playing field
> > since most computers don't hinder your play. And that's precisely why I
> > think a ham radio version might be more interesting. Propagation,
> > antennas, choice of times and bands would all make the game more complex
> > than the typical online video game. The play style would be enriched by
> > the variables of ham radio and the technical side of the hobby would be
> > retained.
> >
> > The biggest problem I see with something like this is getting the
> > programming done. Successful video games can take years and lots of
> > money to develop, although there are games like Valheim that didn't ...
> > at least not by comparison. However, I strongly suspect that it won't
> > be too long before AI could do something like this, or at least most of
> > it. We wouldn't need the complexity of a top tier video game, and
> > graphics engines are becoming increasingly accessible for simple
> > environments. Station wise, I don't think it would be any different
> > than it is now to use a logger for rig control and score tracking ...
> > just different software.
> >
> > I realize that the actual game mechanics are missing here. That's
> > because I'm not smart enough to come up with the specifics. But I am
> > convinced that something like this could be done ... it's really just a
> > simple visual interface with an RF connection for the points instead of
> > data packets. The number of made contacts would be MUCH fewer than it
> > is now for a typical contest, but each contact could potentially require
> > more thought and focus. Think in terms of catching fish instead of
> > hammering out CQ's.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
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