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Re: [RFI] More on 160 M RFI - significance of hum bands

To: Christopher Brown <cbrown@woods.net>, "rfi@contesting.com" <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] More on 160 M RFI - significance of hum bands
From: JW via RFI <rfi@contesting.com>
Reply-to: JW <jwin95@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:37:14 +0000 (UTC)
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Concur with Christopher. Based on signature and having tracked down these kinds 
of things too.

Side note: I have seen 'lobing' on power line noise BUT the 'lobes' (the 
interference 'pulses') are grouped together (in frequency bands) on the order 
of a several hundred kHz and more, not 22 kHz. I attribute this lobing effect 
to the nature of the arc exciting multiple vertical ground wires on the power 
poles, and creating a radiated signal with a 'pattern' that varies with 
frequency.  When finding the ultimate source of such energy, in the near field, 
it was rather continuous in nature after all, but at a distance the noise can 
be seen to 'vary' with frequency.

I have often thought I should 'model' such a power line configuration in 4NEC2 
or EZNEC to prove the above theory, that such a thing takes place, but have not 
done so as of yet.

de Jim WB5WPA

      From: Christopher Brown <cbrown@woods.net>
 To: rfi@contesting.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 11:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [RFI] More on 160 M RFI - significance of hum bands
   

Assuming you get that pattern repeating 22khz, my guess would be a
switch mode PS or similar operating at a switching freq of ~ 22Khz
connected to a harmonics rich AC line, possibly with little to no input
filtration.

I have seen similar from a battery powered hand-tool charger that was
poorly designed (no AC line side filering at all).  Result was switcher
harmonics modulated by the first 6 - 8 AC line harmonics.

The point being, to me that looks more like noise from a nasty AC line
powered device than actual power line noise.



On 3/29/17 14:29, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> I'm having more trouble than I expected localizing my power-line 
> interference. In particular, one component of the interference varies 
> from almost negligible to whopping big, as visualized on HDSDR, and 
> often appears in wide bands 22 KHz apart..  See the Dropbox link 
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/qaxt7qnyl51hnp3/hum%20bars.png?dl=0> for a 
> visual.  You can see the hum every 120 Hz on the audio display - when I 
> move the AM passband away from the hum bands, the 120-Hx 
> multiplesessentially disappear.  The bands themself vary, without 
> apparent pattern, from very strong - as seen in the illustration- to 
> invisblle/inaudible. Just now, they stuttered a few times and then 
> disappeared from the waterfall (and the audio) entirely, in the course 
> of a few seconds.  With the AM passband in one of the hum bands, the 
> base noise level is about S9; without them, it is S7, which still isn't 
> great, but worst things first.
> 
> Really puzzling - any advice on what I'm seeing and how to track it down 
> will be much appreciated.
> 
> 
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