Thank you Michael for your response and the tip on the new Radar 251. I
have used the contract guys radar 250 several times while they were here. Nice
gadget but out of my budget so I designed my own circuitry which included more
gain and possibly too much so far but it is adjustable. I never gave any
thought to special filtering. Frankly I don’t use it enough to spend any more
time improving it. And to one other persons comment I too started a fire on my
kitchen table with the shiny Edmund Scientific parabolic dish. It melted the
plastic sensor holder which dripped on some papers. Fortunately I smelled the
burning plastic before any other damage. The 43 KHz sensor survived.
I do not do any interference locating but my own and for a couple friends
not far away. In order to keep the original post a bit short I left out a lot
of details. I am 135 miles one way by road from the contract guys that do
locating for Pacific Power. I live in a town that only has 1370 people. What
has worked out well is if I can find the problem Pacific does not have to get
the contract boys out on an expensive trip. After many calls I have developed a
relationship where they will send the local lineman whom I have gotten to know
and is assigned to this area out for a first meeting on a new problem. If he
can agree I have located the problem he will either repair it himself or bring
in a local crew. If both he and I cannot agree on the specific problem then
they will call the contract guys out.
I have had one problem that even the contract boys could not find which I
later found. The lumber products plant next door replaced a burned up air
compressor with a new one that is 100 horsepower and on a three phase 480 volt
VFD power supply. At first I tried every receiver I had. All I could tell was
the noise floor had gone up by 20 dB from mid AM BC band to about 4 MHz. Even
on AM node I could not hear a characteristic hum to the noise. The contract
boys came out and could not tell there was anything there at all as everything
sounded and looked on their scope to them and me just like broadband
propagation noise. Until I loaded up my SDR-IQ with computer and an Eprobe
antenna on my truck I could not identify the noise. While looking at the noise
with a narrow filter over the wider spectrum I could easily see the 20 or more
dB noise signature which still sounded just like broadband noise but had quite
the unique frequency display. Apparently the narrow band sampling used to make
the display uncovered the wide band of narrow noise components. Following this
noise in the truck I could still detect it 1 ½ miles away driving along the
power line. I got them to install a filter and its better but in the meantime
another issue reared it ugly head in my own household I am dealing with it
before returning to evaluate and or quantify the original problems
improvement. Not all noise problems are found in the same way. It takes a lot
of experience, dedication, and equipment. I fully appreciate what you do
Michael.
Lee K7TJR OR
From: Michael Martin <mike@rfiservices.com>
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2024 2:20 PM
To: Lee STRAHAN <k7tjr@msn.com>
Cc: Charles Gallo <charlie@thegallos.com>; Rfi List <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] UPDATE re: Source power pole located - but wonder which
components most likely temperature sensitive
Lee that sounds about right to me. I find the same to be true Everywhere I Go.
Might I suggest trying out the model 251 from radar engineers. It has filtering
that does a good job of keeping those grass and trees out of the receiver.
Quite an improvement over the model 250 and has greater range than the 250 does!
Michael Martin k3rfi
RFI Services
51 W Bay Front Rd
Lothian, MD 20711
240-508-3760
mike@rfiservices.com<mailto:mike@rfiservices.com>
www.rfiservices.com<http://www.rfiservices.com/>
On Sat, Feb 3, 2024, 6:45 PM Lee STRAHAN <k7tjr@msn.com<mailto:k7tjr@msn.com>>
wrote:
Charlie, and all,
I have spent a lot of hours with the Pacific Power’s contract guys riding
along in their rigs. I can say this, In the Central Oregon area about 90% or
more of the Radio interferences on 160 and 80 meters found here are caused in
the pole to pole or pole or pole to ground wires system and not the high
tension lines. Some of our lines are quite old and continually get upgraded.
Usually loose bolts or 2 pieces of metal very close to one another with no
literal connection arcing to each other. One particular hard to find occurrence
here was a single long bolt through the crossarm too close to one of the 45
degree braces holding that crossarm to the pole. Found first with 225 MHz and
then identified as the bolt by Ultrasonic. Pole back stay cables are often
involved in that ground system especially if accidentally touching another
cable.
For my purposes I find that RF receivers are the best at getting very close
to an offender. I use from AM broadcast up to 450 MHz for initial finds and
then try my own design of ultrasonic with an Edmund scientific 12 inch
parabolic dish. The ultrasonic is OK for refining down to particular hardware
on a find but you cannot detect any area you cannot see for small arcs. As an
aside we have a lot of Cheat Grass here and when dry in a breeze overpowers the
ultrasonic at 43KHz in our dry summer climate.
Its just like low band receiving, one can never have enough interference
locating tools or receiving antennas.
Lee K7TJR OR
From: charlie@thegallos.com<mailto:charlie@thegallos.com>
<charlie@thegallos.com<mailto:charlie@thegallos.com>>
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2024 12:54 PM
To: 'Michael Martin' <mike@rfiservices.com<mailto:mike@rfiservices.com>>
Cc: 'Lee STRAHAN' <k7tjr@msn.com<mailto:k7tjr@msn.com>>; 'Rfi List'
<rfi@contesting.com<mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
Subject: RE: [RFI] UPDATE re: Source power pole located - but wonder which
components most likely temperature sensitive
Nah, I’m buying the drone for OTHER reasons (Lost pet finding, help with SAR) –
but was wondering if nosie fining would work. I know others in the field who
are doing power line inspections for the power company (HV Lines). So it seems
that for noise, basically useless – that is OK, was just a “It would be nice if
it did”
From: Michael Martin <mike@rfiservices.com<mailto:mike@rfiservices.com>>
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2024 9:11 AM
To: charlie@thegallos.com<mailto:charlie@thegallos.com>
Cc: Lee STRAHAN <k7tjr@msn.com<mailto:k7tjr@msn.com>>; Rfi List
<rfi@contesting.com<mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
Subject: Re: [RFI] UPDATE re: Source power pole located - but wonder which
components most likely temperature sensitive
Charlie I'm sorry I don't have time to write I really thorough and long
response to your post. However, if you're purchasing and I are camera for the
use of Powerline noise you'll be wishing your money. It is not economically
feasible. I have been out with many infrared camera sales people and Corona can
people. I challenge them in a neighborhood that I don't frequent and I tell
them to find every Source they can find in the neighborhood. I go out and I
find every Power Line noise in the neighborhood. We spend a couple of hours
doing this and come back and compare them. Rarely is there more than one source
that are matching. Most power line noises are created by very small sparks.
It's unfortunate as most amateur radio operators want to explain to the power
companies that these are all catastrophic failures and due to a lack of
maintenance. That is just not factual. The Sparks that create most of the power
line noises do not create Heat because of the lack of current flow. Most
sources are induced voltage into hardware near the primary conductor. As for
ultrasound it works wonderful however it's direct line of sight capabilities
inhibit finding a lot of the sources that are internal such as Lightning
restors Arc through insulation and conductors and things like that. I read most
of the input on this reflector and I wish I had time to comment on everything
but I don't. I spend just about every day locating Powerline noise for power
companies all over the country and I just can't find the time to reply to post
that I'd like to because I'm too busy finding noise. I use ultrasound and RF
every day I use the UE and the radar engineers. The radar Engineers is the best
piece of equipment out there and in no way should anyone think they're going to
find the average Source 200 ft away or even 60 ft away. The average power line
noise from Hardware to ground is typically no more than about 50 ft. On the
average! I find over 90% of my sources using ultrasound. Sometimes those
sources are determined because I can't receive it with ultrasound and that
helps to point toward the source as well as being able to hear it. And for red
is not a good tool for finding Powerline resources. My experience does not come
from taking a class and being certified. My experience comes from actually
doing it and time and time again finding the source a lot of times repairing it
myself to get a total understanding of why it happens as well as a lot of lab
reconstruction.
Best wishes to everybody.
Michael Martin
RFI Services
51 W Bay Front Rd
Lothian, MD 20711
240-508-3760
mike@rfiservices.com<mailto:mike@rfiservices.com>
www.rfiservices.com<http://www.rfiservices.com/>
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024, 7:02 PM
Charlie@thegallos.com<mailto:Charlie@thegallos.com>
<charlie@thegallos.com<mailto:charlie@thegallos.com>> wrote:
Now here is the question. I know they do IR surveys of the power lines (about
to go for the class, yes I have my part 107)
Does anyone know if power line noise sources on the lower voltage stuff
actually shows in IR? As I’m probably going to be buying a thermal drone
(probably a M3T), might be a good tool to add
—
Charlie
73 de KG2V
Http://www.thegallos.com<http://www.thegallos.com/>
> On Feb 2, 2024, at 1:33 PM, Lee STRAHAN <k7tjr@msn.com<mailto:k7tjr@msn.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie and all,
> John Fluke company has some new equipment that senses IR and I believe they
> add ultrasonic for their new remarkable sensor capable of use with power
> lines.
> " https://www.fluke.com/en-us/products/thermal-cameras";
> A bit on the spendy side. I remember their new product announcement
> showing power line use but do not recall their specific product numbers.
> Searching their site.
> I Found this. "
> https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/leak-detection/corona-discharge";
> It's an ii900 from Fluke
> Lee K7TJR OR.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI
> <rfi-bounces+k7tjr=msn.com@contesting.com<mailto:msn.com@contesting.com>> On
> Behalf Of Charles Gallo
> Sent: Friday, February 2, 2024 7:42 AM
> To: Rfi List <rfi@contesting.com<mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] UPDATE re: Source power pole located - but wonder which
> components most likely temperature sensitive
>
> I know HV lines are surveyed with drones in at least some locations. Usually
> the company applies for a “beyond visual line of sight” (BVLOS) waver, and
> they use drones with thermal imaging and CM accuracy for location
> --
> 73 de KG2V
> Charlie
>
>> On Feb 2, 2024, at 10:28 AM, Alan Higbie
>> <alan.higbie@gmail.com<mailto:alan.higbie@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> *I'M CURIOUS*:
>>
>> - Is there some new technology being used for surveying lines? I sort
>> of recall reading something like this. Drones? SDR recording?
>> - Or, maybe this is just some guy driving around with his AM radio on?
>> - Is there a new version of the ultrasonic dish that is better than the
>> previous Radar Engineers model?
>> - What is the difference between RE models and the MFJ-5008?
>>
>> https://mfjen/
>> terprises.com<http://terprises.com/>%2Fproducts%2Fmfj-5008&data=05%7C02%7C%7C416b4c251bef4ede
>> d11108dc24059682%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63842485
>> 3636490497%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI
>> iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1y2NbTZ5VnjgayxM9A%
>> 2FBNgfhX%2FYWfplde66glt%2BDRhg%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> I will further update when these tickets are closed out - and the
>> defective component is positively identified.
>>
>> 73, ~ Alan K0AV
>> Colorado Springs
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>> ef4eded11108dc24059682%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
>> 8424853636498434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
>> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=q%2BXkzCHj1pp
>> z2JM5n%2FeK0oJOBbWt%2BI8TH9RmeYirw64%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
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