Hi Mike.....
Yep. By the way I understand what happens, I would say you nailed it!!
Some of the things you read on this reflector, if you let it, certainly
could drive one to drink.
Tom - W4BQF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hyder -N4NT-" <mike_n4nt@charter.net>
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> Hi, Tom--
>
> I've been reading this thread somewhat puzzled. The problem may be
> terminology. Here's what I think these folks are trying to say:
>
> 1. When the key closes, it brings the key line in the rig low.
>
> 2. When the key line goes low, it causes the transmitter to enable itself
to
> be ready to transmit.
>
> 3. At the same time the rig introduces a delay in the key line equal to or
> greater than the time required for Step 2.
>
> 4. After the delay of Step 3, the transmitter is energized to produce RF
> energy.
>
> If it doesn't work pretty much as I've described, I'll join you for a beer
> (and I'm a tee-totaller at present).
>
> 73, Mike N4NT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tommy" <aldermant@alltel.net>
> To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
>
>
> > It must be Sunday because my brain cell just can not tell the difference
> > between increasing the key-on time and decreasing the key-off time, and
> > changing the weight ratio of a character.
> >
> > If you delay the key closure, you are not keying anything, so how does
> that
> > increase something that has not started yet?
> >
> > If you delay the key closure to "decrease the keying-off time", how can
> you
> > decrease the off time of something that has not started?
> >
> > Maybe this is one of those things that are much harder to explain the to
> > actually do? The radio is not going to (obviously) start producing RF
> until
> > the key is closed, so if your delaying the time before you close the
key,
> > the radio is just sitting there staring at you, until you actually close
> the
> > key.
> >
> > I think I need a beer. At least it's something to ponder for the rest of
> the
> > day. Make that two beers!
> >
> > Tom - W4BQF
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn@eastlink.ca>
> > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> >
> >
> > > Steve -
> > >
> > > You asked "How does the rig know it's "make" is being delayed by a
> > keyer?"
> > >
> > > It's the reverse, the key closure is delayed to increase key-on time,
> or
> > > decrease
> > > keying-off time, by the amount of mS you set to match the rig's on
> delay.
> > > The
> > > adjustment is independent of speed and is used to correct keying
> > distortion
> > > of
> > > various transceivers.
> > >
> > > You will note that ARRL tests of key closure versus signal transmit
> delay
> > of
> > > different rigs are shown. I measured the mS needed to compensate my
> > > rigs from those test pix. The Paragon II was "dead on" using the
> Paragon
> > > (1)
> > > test results. Saved a lot of fussin".
> > >
> > > 73 - Don VE1BN@eastlinbk.ca
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com>
> > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:17 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes sir. I had a K3 Super Duper CMOS here for some time. I sold it
> > because
> > > I
> > > > didn't like the mode B emulation. Other than that, it's ok.
Listening
> to
> > > the
> > > > weight vs. "keying compensation" adjustment in another receiver,
they
> > > seem
> > > > to do exactly the same thing which is to increase the length of the
> > > > characters. The only difference is that the "keying compensation"
> > doesn't
> > > > affect the K3's racus sidetone.
> > > > Now I have a question about one of your statements.
> > > >
> > > > "Keying compensation allows the make to be delayed so that the
start
> of
> > > the
> > > > > rig's
> > > > > keying envelope matches the keyer. The weight control is
> different."
> > > >
> > > > How does the rig know it's "make" is being delayed by a keyer?
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, for some rigs, especially ICOMS, when used in QSK mode,
extra
> > > weight
> > > > is needed. When I use my MFJ 407 with the PROII in QSK mode, I
simply
> > > crank
> > > > up the weight control about 30%. In Semi-bkin mode, I turn it back
to
> > > > normal. The sidetone in the PROII reflects this change and sounds
> rather
> > > > heavy. When using the K3 keyer, you get the same exact effect when
> > > > increasing either the "weight" or "compensation". If you can stand
to
> > > listen
> > > > to the sick duck sidetone of the K3, the weight of the sidetone is
> > > preserved
> > > > by increasing the "compensation" instead of the "weight". So
basically
> > the
> > > > "compensation" adjustment is a gimmick.
> > > > Most TenTec rigs do not seem to require additional weight but las
Tom
> > > > mentioned, the Omni 6+ does need a little help over about 45 WPM.
The
> > > Orion
> > > > seems to be rather unpredictable in this reguard. Mine was choppy at
> > first
> > > > then I upgraded the software and it sounded much better but my QSK
> > became
> > > > slow. Maybe there's a relation!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn@eastlink.ca>
> > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:45 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Whatever, Steve. Please don't take me for a fool. Guess I am
just
> a
> > > > lucky
> > > > > fellow
> > > > > with a CMOS Superkeyer 3 which can compensate keying in various
> rigs.
> > > > Ever
> > > > > try one? Was a cmcl op, used a bug for 40 years from early ham
> days
> > in
> > > > > 1946
> > > > > until I sold my little Zephyr 5 years ago. I've used the CMOS for
> the
> > > past
> > > > > 9.
> > > > >
> > > > > Guess I'm a true blue CW op too!! I know you don't tighten the
> > dits
> > > up
> > > > > on a bug
> > > > > as close as suggested.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keying compensation allows the make to be delayed so that the
start
> of
> > > the
> > > > > rig's
> > > > > keying envelope matches the keyer. The weight control is
> different.
> > > It
> > > > > shortens
> > > > > the spacing of characters, sort of runs them together if too much
> > weight
> > > > is
> > > > > set. Big
> > > > > difference. These are heard in the Ten-Tec sidetones.
> > > > >
> > > > > Was just suggesting a possible solution, but forget it OM, you
> > > apparently
> > > > > already
> > > > > have the answers....
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, no offence taken or meant.
> > > > >
> > > > > 73 - Don VE1BN@eastlink.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Gosh. just seems to do the job. ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com>
> > > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:06 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Keying compensation? Delay? Sounds like a line from the K3
manual.
> I
> > > > > suppose
> > > > > > if he had a keyer he could crank up the weight but I'm not
sure
> > the
> > > > ole
> > > > > > boy owns one. He's a true, blue cw op! Bug only! BTW: That
"keying
> > > > > > compensation" is just another weight control. The only
difference
> in
> > > > that
> > > > > > and a regular weight control on a Curtis keyer is the fact that
it
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > affect the sidetone (which few people use anyway).
> > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn@eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:19 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Steve -
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any way he can set the keying compensation? I found my
Paragon
> > II
> > > > > needed
> > > > > > > about 15 mS delay to give a smooth keying characteristic. No
> > > shortened
> > > > > > makes
> > > > > > > or clicks. Worth a try if he can set it up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 73 - Don, VE1BN@eastlink.ca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com>
> > > > > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:30 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A friend of mine has an Omni V and he is trying to use a bug
> > however
> > > > the
> > > > > > > dits are being chopped so badly that he can't use it. I've
never
> > had
> > > a
> > > > > > > TenTec rig that chopped dits like this one. I've hear him on
the
> > air
> > > > and
> > > > > > > even with his dit weight screwed to almost touching, he sounds
> > > > horrible.
> > > > > > > It's like something is wrong in the keying circuit. Has anyone
> > > > > experienced
> > > > > > > this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > TenTec mailing list
> > > > > > > TenTec@contesting.com
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > >
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