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To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] MY_BUTTERNUT_HF2V_&_ORION_&_RFI
From: "Ken K7ZUM" <Ken.Knopp@verizon.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:30:32 -0700
List-post: <mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Hmm, A couple of more points on butternuts verticals, this has all been good
reading, but here is my experience on using HF6V'S, right after 9-11, my
partner and I were headed back to ST. MARTIEN for c.q.w.w. phone, but were
really concerned about taking so much luggage, including our Force 12 C-3's
beams and all of the masting that goes along with it, so we opted for two
butternut HF6V's ( I have used them many times in the past) I operated from
side of the island, Craig operated from the other side, I cut out a couple
of angle iron
stakes to pound into the ground  to attach the the Verticals to, for radials
all we did
was string out a dozen or so pieces of wire in all directions, of no
particular length,
just whatever we could fit in the space we had, I took my MFJ ANT analyzer,
for minumum VSWR on all bands, we worked the contest, if memory serves me
Craig made about 6,000 plus Q's, I made around 5,000 plus Q's, on a
vertical, in the Carribeans !! and here's another point, all of the guys on
the other islands
wanted to work me on 160 mtrs, I had NO ANTENNA'S on 160 mtrs, but I told
the guys
over on Anguilla to meet me on 1.835.00 and listen, what I did was turn the
amp off,
and I knew my Omni VI plus would not shut down with high vswr (god only
knows how
high it was !! )  and I transmitted with  100 watts on my HF6V ! and worked
the guys over
on Anguilla, then worked the guys over on ST. Kitts, and Barbados, but I
think the best one
was with K1AR at PJ2T !  John  sure seems to have good ears ! ( so try
transmitting into
such an awful load with ur IcomYeahooKenmore and see what happens !)
those butternuts worked so well, we used them the next year, and the next,
and we will
use them again this year, and I belive that in 2002, Craig, FS/AH8DX, took
9th in the
World, C.Q.W.W.S.S.B single op, all band, high power, on a frigging
butternut !
with just a dozen of so pieces of wire laying on the ground, of no
particular length.

73 de K7ZUM, PJ7/K7ZUM..... FS/K7ZUM
Ken in Gres"HAM"  Ore

> A couple of points to add to George's dialogue.
> Regardless of the vertical physical height the electrical length of the
> radials should be near 1/4 wave on the lowest frequency used.  A
> of equal number of 1/4 wave radials and 1/2 wave radials has been found to
> work even better.  After all, the vertical presents an electrical length
> just a physical length.  I recall the 75 ohm matching section applied
> to 20 meters.  Also someone commented that the capacitors on the Butternut
> were ceramic and had a history of problems.  The only thing I'm aware of
> that they didn't like the salt air when we lived in South Florida.  Mine
> mounted on the dock bollard  with the base some 2 ft over a tidal salt
> canal.
> Having had both a HF6V and a 1/2 wave center fed wire some years ago.
> operating HF packet I devised an electronic automatic method to switch
> between the two antennas based on the TU request to repeat packets.  This
> method counted the request and after the 3rd request would switch antennas
> during the receive period.  In just about every case one antenna would
> provide better through-put than the other one.  Frequently during
> of fading the system would switch 10 to 20 times in a 2 or 3 minute
> The result was very high accurate data through-put with very few errors
> thus very few extended request for repeated packets.  General observations
> indicated that when signals were down on one antenna they were up on the
> other one.  Again, this condition could and would change in a matter of a
> few seconds thus the necessitation or need to switch antennas.
> George, I do hope you have those driven grounds bonded to the AC mains
> ground and all other driven grounds around the property.  Failure to do so
> will produce a step voltage between two different ground during a near-by
> lightning strike.  Equipment connected between the two different grounds
> will then share the current flowing between the two different grounds.
> result is that one can observe extensive equipment damage or worse.
> As to the value of internal tuners, well that's the reason I use only
> external tuners.  I figure the best application for the internal tuner is
> adequately match the input Z of the legal limit amp (which is always 2:1
> better) and thus improve the overall IMD of the station.
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "George K" <w2yj@highstream.net>
> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:47 AM
> Subject: [TenTec] MY_BUTTERNUT_HF2V_&_ORION_&_RFI
> > Just put up a Butternut HF2V vertical (80-40-30 meters) with the 30
> > add on kit. I buried 19 radials each 70 feet long 1 inch under the
> > Why 19? I got board. Why 70 feet? Seemed a good length although they
> > had to be the length of the vertical, 32 feet.
> > The vertical seems to be working great so far. I haven't had a chance to
> > compare transmit to my 270 foot center fed with 450 ohm ladder line
> > terminating to a balun yet. The 270 footer is up at 50 feet.
> > The vertical is only 1/2 S unit or so below the 270 foot center fed on
> > receive, and sometimes is better.
> > I have an 8 foot ground rod at the base of the vertical and a DX
> > Engineering
> > radial plate that made the radial connections easy.
> > This HF2V also has a 75 ohm matching section because of the added 30
> > kit.
> >
> > As for RFI and the Orion. I also had to re-invent my shack setup such as
> > moving the 450 ladder line outside the house and establishing a good
> > ground that is 2, 8 foot ground rods outside the 1st floor shack window
> > that
> > terminates on a single point ground connection in the shack. Water pipe
> > didn't cut it!
> > I also found that running the SSB menu "TX AUDIO SOURCE" on BOTH when
> > running SSB high power screwed up my audio, big time. Setting it to
> > cured that. I run PSK31 using the AUX input and when set at BOTH the
> > didn't like what was coming in the AUX input when on SSB.
> > By the way, the Orion is working great!!! Good to know that it is up
> > the best receivers made.
> > Just wish it had a larger range internal auto tuner. Maybe Ten Tec will
> > come
> > out with a larger range internal tuner or upgrade the existing one?
> > All is quiet now!
> > George
> >
> >
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