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Re: [TenTec] Cyberpower 3000 rif

To: <ken.d.brown@hawaiiantel.net>,"Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Cyberpower 3000 rif
From: "Denton" <denton@oregontrail.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 18:58:26 -0800
List-post: <mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Thanks for the good advice Ken....I am also forwarding this to the other 
local ham club members...

Ok good advicer...sine wave from the ups looks very clean...very few 
jaggies...definitely a sine rather than a stepped wave....when the ups is 
inactive, the 120 vac in this qth looks very good. I will re-scope the ac 
output again when I get all my work done.
When the ups is inactive....normal 120 vac operation...there is no rfi from 
the unit. When I used to kill the circut breaker to the ac line feeding the 
ups, then the rfi shows up...
However, I did a few things that have gotten it down to a much less rfi 
I have a long wire monitoring antenna, with the feedpoint just on the other 
side of the wall of the basement where the ups resides, when I pulled down 
that particular hf antenna, a lot of the rfi went away. It dropped to a 
further level when I put ferrite clamp chokes on the dc lines from the 
battery pack to the ups, and re-installed an isobar on the ac line from the 
ups that feeds the radio station. Some other lower end ups manufacteurers 
state not to install additional filtering after the output of a filtered 
ups, but the literature I downloaded for my particular ups says nothing in 
that regards. To my thinking, the more filtering, the better.
I still have a tad of rfi from the ups on 40 meters, but it is not 
interfering with weak signal work on that band near as much as it was...by a 
long shot.
The radio station currently resides in the upstairs office that is just 
above the basement room where the ups is residing..since we are doing some 
remodeling, the radio station and our computer stations will be moved to 
another room, doubling the distance to the ups....a bit more grounding work 
and isolation, and I think it the rfi will no longer be an item.
We are having a lot of variable weather this fall...two snow storms already 
and can get some real nasty wind and rain storms going thru this 
area....already have had at least 3 times the normal ac power failed for a 
short period of time and the radio and computer stations didn't even 
blink...so the ups system is doing its job.
Lead acid gas absorption mat batteries are sure expensive these days! Too 
much demand for lead worldwide is my understanding.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Brown" <ken.d.brown@hawaiiantel.net>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Cyberpower 3000 rif

> Hi Denton,
> Denton wrote:
>> I notice there is considerable rfi comming from the ups when it is 
>> active.
> What do you mean by when it is active? There is more than one scheme for
> UPS systems. Some have a charger and an inverter running all the time,
> others have a very fast switching system and only run the inverter when
> there is really a supplied AC power outage. In one of those "active"
> could mean that the charger is on to maintain the battery and the
> inverter is not. There may be more than one charging mode too.
>> The ups is supposed to be emi/rfi filtered and has an isolation 
>> transformer
>> on the ups output. Scoping the output of the ups indicates a so called 
>> clean
>> ac sine wave. Testing of the ac line input and output of the usp 
>> indicates
>> correct wiring.
> What do you mean by "so called clean AC sine wave"? Inverters that do
> generate good clean sine waves usually do so using some sort of switched
> mode generation of the sine wave. Do you know the switching frequency,
> can you see steps in the sine wave or some other artifact of the switch
> mode operation, and if so does it correlate to the noise on the radio?
>> Clamp on ferrite chokes on the ac output of the ups has little effect.
> For the highest efficiency, the UPS may use a switched mode DC
> supply/charger. Maybe the noise is generated by the "front end" (battery
> charging part) of the UPS more than by the "back end" (inverter part).
> Try ferrites on the AC input. Can you scope the input AC supply and see
> if it is clean too?
>> I would like to get rid of the rfi into the radio station. Rfi is most
>> prevalent on 40 thru 20 meters..the other bands seem to be uneffected.
>> Radio station is heavly grounded on its own ground rod system, not 
>> directly
>> connected to the ups.
> You could try some experiments to determine whether the noise is
> conducted to the radio gear through the power lines, or radiated from
> the power lines and picked up by the antenna. Maybe temporarily run the
> radio directly from the AC line, or even better from a battery if the
> radio can easily run on DC power, and connect various test loads to the
> UPS with various length wires from the UPS to the load. How about a
> medium sized resistive load (for the rating of the UPS) like a heater,
> connected with as short cables as possible and nothing else hooked up to
> the output of the UPS. Compare that to the same load connected through
> your usual distribution wiring. The bands most effected may relate to a
> length of AC power cable that radiates harmonics of the UPS switching
> frequency more efficiently on those bands.
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