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Re: [TenTec] Corsair II buzz

To: Tentec@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Corsair II buzz
From: "Gary Smith" <Gary@doctorgary.net>
Reply-to: Gary@doctorgary.net, Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:21:35 -0400
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Hi again, 

While truly the idea of three phase noise generation and equipment is 
reading which I enjoy following, I gotta reiterate that I most 
recently heard this when running off a deep cycle battery and no 
antenna (a 6" piece of wire was inserted in the 239 connector for a 
minimal antenna) or other wires attached. 

I had the sound in Illinois & Indiana and was in Indiana when I sent 
it back to TenTec. My PS at that time was an analog 100 or so amp 
supply I built from slavaged 1970's Wang Computer power supplies. 
(weighed about 95 pounds...) 

I was disappointed the sound was there when it came back from TenTec 
(replaced output transistors) but they said all was fine with the 
audio. When I moved back to CT, I liberated my fathers barely used 
Omni V and mothballed the Corsair. 

I'd forgotten the buzz untill breaking it out to have a separate 
listening radio to detect if I had key clicks. 

The Omni & my other radio have no issue with this Buzz so I do not 
believe it is external to the amp. I guess I'll just start matching & 
replacing electrolytics on the easily accessable boards first and 
keep going till it's resolved or there's no more old electrolytics to 

The answers that came from this request though were very good 



> Actually and most likely there are three phases in the neighborhood. Each 
> transformer has a single line connected to one phase to provide step-down to 
> 240 volts center tapped. The next group of homes will be picked off of 
> another phase and so on. On our street of 12 houses, there are 6 
> transformers with one transformer serving 2 homes. Hence, there are 2 
> transformers per phase. 
> Yes, be sure all equipment is bonded by a separate ground wire, chassis to 
> power supply of that station. In my case, having 2 separate stations on the 
> desk they have the equipment bonded back to the power supply of each 
> station. I do not loop from chassis to chassis. That says I have 5 or 6 
> ground wires connected to a common point on the power supply. It doesn't 
> require "killer size" wire. Just some #12 AWG copper such as auto primary 
> wire is used. I apply lugs with them being crimped and soldered at each 
> end. I prefer the VACO brand of lugs. 
> Now the next thing is power to the station. Again in my case, covering 
> approximately 75 ft. distance from the breaker panel, I bring a #10 x 4 
> conductor to a break-out group of outlets. The breaker in the panel is 30A 
> double pole. The #10 x 4 then is defined as L1, L2, Neutral and Ground. 
> Although Neutral and Ground are connected to a common buss bar in the 
> breaker panel, ground never carries current except in the instance of a 
> primary fault where Neutral carries only the difference in current between 
> L1 and L2. In all cases, 3rd pin equipment ground is in place. This 
> configuration is used to provide 240 volts to a single 20A 240V outlet for 
> the amp. Then I use L1, Neutral and Ground for three duplex outlets in a 
> box, and then L2, Neutral and Ground for a 2nd set of duplex outlets in a 
> box. I do not have an external station ground due to the location of the 
> equipment in the residence. All lightning protection is done at the point 
> where the feedlines and rotor cables enter the structure. {Topic for 
> another discussion.} 
> All this makes for clean power, no ground loops, and a very safe 
> installation. 
> 73 
> Bob K4TAX 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Hoffman" <ghoffman@spacetech.com> 
> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com> 
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:50 PM 
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Corsair II buzz 
> > Hmmm....in our neighborhood we certainly have nothing remotely like a 240 
> > v 
> > delta system serving residences, being center tapped and all as mentioned 
> > below. 
> > 
> > What we have are moderately high voltage lines - on my street they are at 
> > like 3400 volts, phase to phase. While three phases are available, only 
> > two 
> > are run down my street, because that is all they need for our low power 
> > use. 
> > 
> > Local transformers, that service a couple of houses each, pick off power 
> > from these two primary phases, and produce a center tapped 240 V AC 
> > secondary. 
> > 
> > If there were a buzz around here, it sure would not be due to the source 
> > described. 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jim Brown" <k9yc@audiosystemsgroup.com> 
> > To: <Gary@doctorgary.net>; "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" 
> > <tentec@contesting.com> 
> > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:13 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] Corsair II buzz 
> > 
> > 
> >> Gary Smith wrote: 
> >>> Thanks 
> >>> I have noticed the "buzz" on several different power supplies 
> >>> including a deep cycle battery. It's definitely not a hum but sounds 
> >>> like something with odd harmonics, a definite buzz. 
> >> The most common source of "buzz" consists of "triplen" harmonics of the 
> >> AC power line, coupled from the 3-phase power line that is probably 
> >> providing your residential service. See my recommendations for bonding 
> >> together the gear in your station to kill this noise. Triplen harmonics 
> >> are harmonics whose orders are divisible by three -- 180 Hz, 360 Hz, 540 
> >> Hz, and so on. 
> >> 
> >> http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf and 
> >> http://audiosystemsgroup.com/HamInterfacing.pdf 
> >> 
> >> The first one is a tutorial in text form that covers a lot of material, 
> >> including this. The second is a Power Point that covers much of the same 
> >> material. 
> >> 
> >> My solutions are very simple and inexpensive, and don't involve going 
> >> inside the radio. 
> >> 
> >> These harmonics are produced in power systems by current flowing at the 
> >> peak of the cycle to charge the input filter capacitors in electronic 
> >> power supplies (both linear and switchers). Most current cancels in the 
> >> neutral (and in the green wires) of 3-phase systems, but triplen 
> >> harmonics add. So-called "high leg Delta" power distribution is widely 
> >> used in neighborhoods where a few small users need 3-phase but most need 
> >> 120/240V. It's a 240V Delta, but with one side being center-tapped to 
> >> feed residences. This triplen current is the source of what we call 
> >> "ground buzz." It's there because there's no neutral feed to those 
> >> 3-phase users, so all their triplen current goes to ground in the 
> >> neutral for residences! 
> >> 
> >> This is yet another reason why it's a very good thing to bond all 
> >> grounds together (the most important being lightning). To learn more see 
> >> the tutorials. 
> >> 
> >> 73, 
> >> 
> >> Jim Brown K9YC 
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> >> 
> > 
> > 
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