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Re: [TenTec] Orion 2 Firmware 2.044A PTT

To: ronc@sonic.net, geraldj@weather.net, tentec@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion 2 Firmware 2.044A PTT
From: Rsoifer@aol.com
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:04:35 EDT
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Ron, Jerry and all,
 
I remember a QST article in the mid 1950s that described a system called  
"ultra modulation" that could produce positive peaks up to 200-300%.  It  
wasn't legal for broadcasting, of course, but when I was at W1MX (1959-63), 
Carl  Buhrer, now W1GNP, built one for the club station using a pair of 304THs  
modulating our separate-band Class C amps (2x304TL).  It worked like a  
champ.  Those were the days.
 
73 Ray W2RS
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2010 4:31:08 P.M. GMT Standard Time, ronc@sonic.net 
 writes:

That  would almost be the case for standard pulse-width modulation or plate 
 
modulation, except for positive peaks > 100% which is common in  commercial 
broadcasting (The FCC allows 125% peak positive modulation, but  it's 
possible to do much more).  In this case, Doug Smith, the  original 
software 
engineer on the Orion designed a DSP circuit that  actually increased the 
carrier as the modulation pushed past a certain  point.  There was a 
detailed 
explanation in his website, but  unfortunately the site is gone.  There may 
be articles about this in  QEX.

BTW, although the agreed-on standard for an S-Unit is 6 dB, many  radios, 
including  the Orion II with the newest firmware in, use 3  dB.  The late 
Jerry Cebik had an excellent article on the genesis of  the S-Unit and the 
RST system, but that's gone from the web  too.

Ron  N6IE
www.N6IE.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson" <geraldj@weather.net>
To:  <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 6:53  AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion 2 Firmware 2.044A PTT


> If the  carrier stays at 14.5 watts, the peaks can only be 58 watts for
> full  modulation. As a practical manner, the difference between 80 watts
> and  100 watts can only be measured locally, not at any distance where 1
> S  unit is 6 db, a power change by a factor of 4.
>
> 73, Jerry,  K0CQ
>
> On 6/12/2010 8:30 AM, Rsoifer@aol.com wrote:
>>  Tnx Ron,
>>
>> That seems a bit low to me.  The peaks  should be closer to 100 watts, 
>> no?
>>
>> 73,  Ray W2RS
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/12/2010  12:03:13 A.M. GMT Standard Time,
>> ronc@sonic.net  writes:
>>
>> I'm  seeing 14.5 Watts with no modulation  and mod peaks 60 to 80  Watts.
>>
>> Ron    N6IE
>> www.N6IE.com
>>
>> ----- Original  Message  -----
>> From:<Rsoifer@aol.com>
>>  To:<tentec@contesting.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010  1:16  PM
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion 2 Firmware 2.044A  PTT
>>
>>
>>>    John,
>>>
>>> I don't have a true peak-reading  wattmeter, so I can't  measure the PEP
>>> output.  Jim  may be right about  controlled-carrier; I can't  tell.  
>>> When
>>> using
>>> TUNE  and  PWR, I get 95 watts, but only 11 watts with  PTT and no 
>>>  speech.
>>>
>>> 73  Ray
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated   6/11/2010 7:01:47 P.M. GMT Standard Time,
>>>  wb4qda@yahoo.com  writes:
>>>
>>>  Ray
>>> When I speak into the Micrphone  with  the mode  set to  AM ,I  
modulates
>> up
>>> to 80 watts  .Tune is 21  watts and tune then the   PWR I get 95  watts
>>>   output.
>>> 73
>>>  John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----   Original Message ----
>>> From:  "Rsoifer@aol.com"<Rsoifer@aol.com>
>>> To:  tentec@contesting.com
>>> Sent: Fri,  June 11,  2010  10:38:22 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion 2 Firmware   2.044A  Released
>>>
>>>  John,
>>>
>>> Funny thing about  that.  With  the mode set  to AM, when I hit Tune and
>>>    then
>>> Pwr I get full output like you did,  but if I hit  the PTT  button 
>>> instead,
>>> all I get is 11  watts on the  Bird.  It  worked fine with  2.041XT.
>>>
>>> 73   Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  In a  message dated 6/11/2010  3:22:43 P.M. GMT Standard  Time,
>>> wb4qda@yahoo.com   writes:
>>>
>>> Ray
>>> I just tested my  O2 on  AM  max  output was 80 warrs on an Alpha  watt
>>> meter
>>> also about   the same  reading on a LP-100A watt meter with the Power 
set
>>>    to
>>>
>>> 100%
>>> using the new  fearmware version 2.044A
>>>   73
>>>  John   wb4qda
>>>
>>>
>>> -----  Original  Message ----
>>> From:  "Rsoifer@aol.com"<Rsoifer@aol.com>
>>> To:  ronc@sonic.net;  w5pny@arrl.net;    tentec@contesting.com
>>> Sent: Fri, June 11,  2010 8:36:18  AM
>>> Subject:  Re:  [TenTec] Orion 2 Firmware   2.044A Released
>>>
>>>  Ron,
>>>
>>> The NR   problem  has been  fixed (!) but the old low-output problem on 
>>>  AM
>>>    is
>>>
>>>
>>> back.  Mine measures  11 watts carrier power,  max.  It   worked  fine  
>>> with
>>>    2.041XT.
>>>
>>> 73 Ray  W2RS
>>>
>>>
>>> In a    message  dated 6/11/2010 2:17:05 A.M. GMT Standard  Time,
>>>   ronc@sonic.net
>>>  writes:
>>>
>>> I have  adjusted the   "Wish  List" for the Orion II to  reflect the 
>>>  newest
>>> version  of  the  firmware.  It's  at  www.N6IE.com
>>>
>>>    Ron   N6IE
>>>  www.N6IE.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original    Message -----
>>> From:  "Harry G McGavran   Jr"<w5pny@arrl.net>
>>>  To:<tentec@contesting.com>
>>>   Sent:   Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:50  PM
>>> Subject: Re:   [TenTec] Orion 2  Firmware  2.044A    Released
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>  With this one I can set   the  side-tone  level all the  way
>>>> up to 65 before the  pops  begin,  and  by the time  one
>>>> gets past 80 on  towards 99  the  distortion on  the
>>>> side-tone  is   still really bad -- BUT --  for me at
>>>>    least, levels are  50-60 are  all I need and that   is
>>>> now  distortion  free, at least with a 610  Hz   sidetone
>>>> which is  the  only one  I tested or use.  I  also  am
>>>>    using the speaker and  not headphones for  this.
>>>>  Since  one  gets the side-tone every time  the   SPOT
>>>>   button is used, the side-tone   distortion was    really
>>>> objectionable with  2.043B.
>>>>
>>>>   The  NR   seems  better too, but most all the time I   don't
>>>> really need it  --  and  it's nice  not to  have artifacts that
>>>> sound like NR   action on the   side-tone which the side-tone
>>>> is  set to   50-60.
>>>>
>>>>    There  are a few CAT wierdnesses  here and  there, but the  
>>>> reliability
>>>> of  sending a   strings of "*"  commands seems   better.
>>>>
>>>>   Unless   something else crops  up, I think I can  live with   this
>>>>     release...
>>>>
>>>> 73   --
>>>>
>>>>   Harry,     W5PNY
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    --
>>>>
>>>>   Harry G.  McGavran,  Jr.
>>>>
>>>> E-mail:    w5pny@arrl.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
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