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Re: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios
From: Clayton Brantley <clayton_n4ev@yahoo.com>
Reply-to: Clayton Brantley <clayton_n4ev@yahoo.com>, Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 05:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Cecil, I just had to do that!  Hi.  Yes, I enjoy all those places too.  My most 
favorite place is the
Catalooche Valley just off I 40 in NC.  

Really enjoined your explanation of filtering.  Would have never thought of 
putting it that way.

73 and hope to meet you on the air.
Clayton N4EV




________________________________
 From: Cecil <chacuff@cableone.net>
To: Clayton Brantley <clayton_n4ev@yahoo.com>; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment 
<tentec@contesting.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on       
Radios
 

You are so right....

My favorite place in the whole world is to sit on a huge boulder in the middle 
of the river at the Chimneys picnic grounds....listening to the water crashing 
over the rocks.  I've been going there for 40 years every chance I get.

Thanks for the correction...

Cecil

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 30, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Clayton Brantley <clayton_n4ev@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Cecil: your explanations are great, the ONLY problem is There ain't an 'e' in 
> Smoky Mountains!
> Worked there as a Park Ranger for several years... HI
> 
> Clayton N4EV
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: "chacuff@cableone.net" <chacuff@cableone.net>
> To: Will Jones <wjones@bellsouth.net>; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment 
> <tentec@contesting.com> 
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on 
> Radios
> 
> 
> Ok, here goes with an analogy...
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve been up in the Smokey Mountains many times and they have some of these 
> beautiful short tunnels through rocky hillsides for the roads to pass.  
> 
> 
> 
> Lets say you were standing in the middle of the road at one end of one of 
> these short, straight tunnels looking through to the other side.  At the 
> other end of the tunnel you see a very nice looking young lady just to the 
> left of center and a really ugly old lady just to the right.  Of course the 
> desirable view at this point is the nice looking young lady but it’s really 
> difficult to get a good look because of the really ugly lady...so.  Say you 
> had a knob that would allow you to move the end of the tunnel left or right 
> just enough to block out the view of the really ugly lady leaving only the 
> view of the very nice looking young lady...there you have IF Shift....also 
> called PBT by other manufacturers.  
> 
> 
> 
> Now re-center the knob where you have both ladies in view.  Hold up the index 
> finger of your right hand out at arms length.  Close one eye and place that 
> finger over the really ugly lady blocking the view of her and leaving only 
> the view of the nice looking younger lady...there you have the Notch Filter.  
> It may not cover the whole view of the ugly lady but it does enough to allow 
> a better view of the nice looking young lady.
> 
> 
> 
> The others are a bit more difficult to explain...
> 
> 
> 
> RIT is really not a filter at all...just another way to tune the frequency of 
> the receiver a small amount without changing your transmitter frequency. Say 
> you are having a short SSB QSO after calling CQ with a fellow who doesn’t 
> seem to be tuned properly to your frequency and he sounds like he has been 
> snorting helium so you need to tune your VFO to make him sound more natural.  
> If you tune your main VFO you are not only tuning your receiver but also your 
> transmitter...which will result in a change in how you sound in his 
> receiver.  Well on the next over he may retune his VFO to make you sound 
> normal in his speaker and it’s an endless chase up and down the band. (this 
> can be caused by radio alignment issues)  Better choice would be to engage 
> RIT and just move your receiver until he sounds natural to you which will not 
> change your transmit frequency only your receiver frequency leaving you 
> sounding the same in his receiver and less likely causing
> him to retune...ending the chase.
> 
> 
> 
> DSP Noise reduction...well this being a software feature is implemented 
> differently in every manufacturers radios and sometimes even between models 
> in the same manufacturers radios.
> 
> The goal of all is to reduce random noise as much as possible while 
> identifying the desirable young lady...um...signal and bringing it out of the 
> noise.  All this is done using math inside the computer.  Some work better 
> than others.  The Icom system works well at reducing background noise without 
> adding too much digital artifact noise as long as you don’t over use it.  
> Seems some think if a little is good then a lot is better...it’s a balance.  
> Turning the knob full clockwise will result in digital noise and not help at 
> all.  The DSP system on my Orion II is different and I’m not sure exactly how 
> to explain it..except the way Ten-Tec does that advancing to a higher number 
> increases the length of time sampling is done before the digital filter is 
> built.  Which results in a better built filter in software but it takes 
> longer to get there.  Of course the desirable signal needs to be there for 
> the duration of the sample or it probably will
> have a hard time doing it’s job.  None of them are magic...and most work well 
> some times and not so well others...it’s just another tool.
> 
> 
> 
> Noise Blankers.  Most are designed to work on repetitive noise pulses like 
> old auto ignition system noise or electric fence pulses.  Some works well on 
> power line noise some not so much.  I’m surprised sometimes at how well some 
> work and how poorly others don’t...and it doesn’t seem to matter how much the 
> radio cost.  Some of the older cheap radios noise blankers do wonders on 
> power line noise and a high dollar radio won’t touch it...go figure.  Won’t 
> do much on atmospheric static crashes because they don’t happen on a timed 
> repetitive timeline which noise blankers are designed to sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Well that’s about all I got...my apologies to any of the ladies out there 
> with my analogy...it was the first vision that popped into my head this 
> morning when envisioning an answer to the question.  No harm intended...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sure others will have more insightful answers and between the group of us 
> we should answer your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> Best of the Labor Day weekend.... 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecil Acuff
> Gulfport MS
> K5DL
> 
> 
> From: Will Jones
> Sent: ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2013 ‎9‎:‎33‎ ‎AM
> To: tentec@contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios
> 
> 
> There are a few of us who meet together every Wed. morning at a local 
> restaurant to talk about ham radio and stuff.
> Some are new hams. One asked this week a question which I think would be an 
> interesting study in comments.
> He asked, "I have an I.F. shift on my radio and I have read about what it 
> does but don't really understand "what" it does. Also how does it compare to 
> the other features I see on radios such as PBT, notch filters, RIT, DSP noise 
> reduction and noise blankers. Without having a radio with these features on 
> them it is hard to explain just what your signal will sound like when these 
> devices are used.
> So can anyone give us some ideas how to explain these different types and why 
> we would want one and not another and why radios don't have them all on one 
> radio. 
> Bill, N4LB in TN
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