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Re: [TenTec] OT: Dynamic range of SDR Radios with 16-bit DAC

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Dynamic range of SDR Radios with 16-bit DAC
From: Carl Moreschi <n4py3@earthlink.net>
Reply-to: n4py3@earthlink.net, Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 18:28:39 -0400
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Sure you will have problems. You have now exceeded the clip point. For the Flex 6500 that's S9+80.

Carl Moreschi N4PY
58 Hogwood Rd
Louisburg, NC 27549
www.n4py.com

On 9/11/2016 6:26 PM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi wrote:
Now we’re getting somewhere.

SO, if you sample the voltage appearing at the output of a given RF input 
stage, and it is, say, 2 uV after scaling for whatever gain is in the front 
end, and the A to D LSB size.

If I leave that 2 uV signal (the one I am trying to hear) at the input, and 
then apply 30 million microvolts (30 volts, which is143 dB over 2 uV) at 
another in band frequency, I will not experience any digitization problems?

Gary



On Sep 11, 2016, at 5:10 PM, Paul Christensen<w9ac@arrl.net>  wrote:

"It still does not explain how you can digitize a signal with amplitude
that is 140 dB signal above one LSB using a 16 bit A to D."

You're incorrectly applying bit strength based on strictly on voltage.  We
cannot use the classic format for dynamic range where DR = 20 log2^ (bit
strength).  That gives 96 dB of DR for a 16 bit voltage based system where
other factors like ADC clock rate and bandwidth are important.

Example: the SunSDR Colibri receiver has a 14 bit ADC.  Like all DDC
receivers, it achieves its DR through the process of decimation and
filtering.  If a 14 bit ADC is sampling at 80 Msps with decimation occurring
to a 500 Hz bandwidth, then there's an increase of DR by 10 log(80^e6/500).
That's 53 dB.  SunSDR uses an ADC used that's specified with a 77 dB SNR at
15 MHz.  With decimation, the dynamic range is increased to 77 dB + 53 dB =
130 dB.

How about a 16-bit receiver that's rated with a 77 dB SNR at 30 MHz.  Assume
the ADC is clocking at 125 Msps.  10 log(125^e6/500) = 54 dB.  After
decimation, DR  is 77 dB + 54 dB = 131 dB.

We gained only 1 dB of DR by going from a 14-bit ADC to a 16-bit ADC.  This
is exactly why folks have been saying it doesn't make a difference in nearly
every amateur application.  There may be other design factors to consider
but DR isn't one of them.  The ANAN-100B has nearly the same DR as the more
expensive ANAN-100D.  One product uses a 14 bit ADC, the other is 16 bit.
Let's stop treating the subject like we're calculating the DR of a CD
player.

Paul, W9AC


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