[TOEC] Fw: Vad är detta?
Jan-Eric Rehn
jan-eric.rehn at telia.com
Mon Feb 8 09:06:13 EST 2016
Hej Göran!
Jag avskyr sådana här diskussioner, där man blir påhoppad.
"disrespectful" ??? Jag föstår inte på vilket sätt.
Jag försökte påvisa på vilket sätt dessa call behandlades i alla
datoriserade loggprogram och de programmen är ofantligt många. N1MM+ och
DX4WIN var bara två exempel i mångfalden. Dessutom är det inte något fel i
redovisningen från Jim, AD1C i hans olika CTY.DAT. Han delger oss bara vad
OH har berättat om de finska tilläggen och kan inte lastas för vad som
händer i loggprogrammen.
Kanske vissa personer vill att vi ska återgå till att logga i
pappersloggböcker? Då blir allt frid och fröjd.
Detta blir mitt sista inlägg i den här frågan - ja, i alla frågor. Det är
inte lönt att utsätta sig för helt obegripliga diskussioner. Det är kanske
det som också gjort att TOEC-reflektorn i stort sett somnat in. Man är trött
på alla invektiv och påhopp från sådana, som alltid ska tycka annorlunda,
oavsett vad det är.
73 de Janne, SM3CER
(som fortsättningsvis ska ägna sig åt det som är roligt - att köra radio)
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
From: Mats Strandberg
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 5:28 AM
To: Göran Ingemar Backman
Cc: Rune Wande ; TOEC ; Jari Jussila ; Jan-Eric Rehn
Subject: Re: [TOEC] Fw: Vad är detta?
Hello Göran,
Then all is fine...
I already have some dialogue with Jim about this. If any outcome in either
direction, I will let you know.
73 and see you in upcoming contests or special event operations :)
RM2D, Mats
2016-02-08 5:05 GMT+03:00 Göran Ingemar Backman <sm5sic at gmail.com>:
> Dear Mats,
>
> Nice to hear from You. God fortsättning på det nya året.
>
> Yes, You are right; I might have misunderstood the settings
>
> "/S och /SA - vad är det för konstiga hemsnickrade tillägg?
>
> OH1BGG/SA blir ju SM, Sverige i alla loggprogram och SA0 som prefix.
>
> Inget som PTS ligger bakom i alla fall."
>
> which in my eyes looked disrespectful.
>
> However, if there would be any comments on the CTY files, maybe an e-mail
> to AD1C Jim would be a good idea. Is it not Jim, that is taking care of
> the
> updating of the CTY files? And I agree with You Mats, that we will show
> respect to other countries, when they use special call signs to
> commemorate
> historic events. And for a contester it is good in for instance WPX, when
> there are special prefixes, because that is a new multiplier, hihi.
>
>
> 73 de SM5SIC/OH1SIC Göran
>
>
>
>
> 2016-02-07 16:39 GMT+00:00 Mats Strandberg <sm6lrr at gmail.com>:
>
>> Göran,
>>
>> I think you maybe misunderstood some of us...
>>
>> The issue is not whether the special calls or dates are important or
>> not. They for sure have all our respect and we like the activities as
>> such, but what we questioned was to include them in CTY files or not, as
>> those calls are not really active in the contests.
>>
>> There are many contesters that both share the interest for special calls,
>> special activitites and contest. But not always those activities are
>> related to contest itself - so the comment on CTY and contest programs
>> are
>> for sure relevant in my view at least.
>>
>> So, just to clarify - a contester might be a person that only cares about
>> CTY files and contesting, but in many cases, a contester is like any
>> other
>> human being, namely interested and curious in many diverse interests.
>>
>> So no contradiction in that, and for sure no disprespect towards Oman,
>> Finland and any other countries that choose to use special prefixes to
>> commemorate historic events.
>>
>> 73 de Mats RM2D
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-02-06 16:04 GMT+03:00 Göran Ingemar Backman <sm5sic at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Anybody that has been listening to the band during the last years, has
>>> been able to notice the increase of special call signs and different
>>> suffixes. For instance Oman and Bahrain had special call signs last
>>> years
>>> when they celebrated 45 years as independent countries. I operated
>>> A41OO/45, please see QRZ.com.
>>>
>>> The discussion above reflects what is really important for certain
>>> people.
>>>
>>> If You live in Oman, it was really important when the country turned 45
>>> years and therefore every ham in A4 could use the suffix /45 in their
>>> call
>>> sign during November 2015.
>>>
>>> If You know about Finland, You will understand how serious the situation
>>> was there 1939-1940, 1941-1944 and 1944-1945 (I am referring to the
>>> three
>>> wars that Finland had during WWII, where most Swedes do not even know
>>> that
>>> Finland was in three wars, not two). All families except for the
>>> immigrants
>>> have older relatives that either died, were wounded or got their minds
>>> seriously messed up during these wars. These are importants events in
>>> Finnish history because the freedom of the country had to be paid with a
>>> heavy toll. Therefore Indepence day in Finland on 6 Dec is a serious
>>> day,
>>> not a carneval. Therefore the veterans are remembered even after their
>>> death by a special sign on their tomb stones. Therefore using old
>>> military
>>> radio equipment on 40m and 80m during Independece day 6 Dec and
>>> during Field Marshal Mannerheim day 4 June with the suffixes /SA and /S
>>> is
>>> something with meaning to the people of Finland.
>>>
>>> But if You are only interested in N1MM and CTY files, then the most
>>> important thing will be to get Your program to run without problems.
>>> Your
>>> whole world is focused on a contest software and its files. It makes
>>> sence
>>> to me, but I feel sorry for these poor soles, that are mentally deprived
>>> from the rest of the world. After all, there are more important things
>>> than
>>> computer programs and country files
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 de SM5SIC/OH1SIC Göran
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-02-05 13:23 GMT+00:00 Jan-Eric Rehn <jan-eric.rehn at telia.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jari,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the info.
>>>>
>>>> I also tried to add some calls into N1MM+ and DX4WIN. Both programs
>>>> updated with fresh CTY.dat today.
>>>>
>>>> N1MM+ ver.1.0.5458.0 (Contest log program):
>>>>
>>>> OH2BU/S = Unknown country
>>>> OH2BU/SA = Sweden
>>>> S/OH2BU = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH2BU = Sweden
>>>>
>>>> OH1BGG/S = Unknown country
>>>> OH1BGG/SA = Sweden
>>>> S/OH1BGG = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH1BGG = Sweden
>>>>
>>>> DX4WIN ver. 8.05 (Ordinary log program):
>>>>
>>>> OH2BU/S = Unknown country
>>>> OH2BU/SA = Sweden
>>>> S/OH2BU = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH2BU = Sweden
>>>>
>>>> OH1BGG/S = Finland
>>>> OH1BGG/SA = Finland
>>>> S/OH1BGG = Unknown country
>>>> SA/OH1BGG = Sweden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OH2BU was not amongst the calls in "Retired Callsigns/prefixes:", but
>>>> OH1BGG was. As the calls under that heading was erased from the new
>>>> CTY.dat
>>>> the results in N1MM+ was as expected.
>>>>
>>>> The "long" version of CTY.dat is used in "ordinary" log programs, such
>>>> as DX4WIN and OH1BGG/SA is still there. Therefore the results in DX4WIN
>>>> is
>>>> also as expected.
>>>>
>>>> But - I still think there are trouble with such additions to a
>>>> callsign, especially with the use of all the different log programs in
>>>> the
>>>> computer. N1MM+ and DX4WIN are only two of all log programs and all the
>>>> others don't act the same way.
>>>>
>>>> That means that calls with the endings /QRP, /QRPP, /QRO, /MM, /AM, /P,
>>>> /M, /LH, /SA, /S, /60 etc ... needs to be in the "long" CTY.dat to be
>>>> shown
>>>> as the correct country (if the log program isn't having some of those
>>>> endings approved).
>>>>
>>>> If more countries will do the same as Finland - how big will that
>>>> "long" CTY.dat be???
>>>>
>>>> Another thing:
>>>>
>>>> You wrote:
>>>> In fact, as you can use any number after your call, you can choose a
>>>> good number for eg. WPX-contest. I could use OH2BU/4 from my OH2 QTH
>>>> and
>>>> have a bigger pile-up.
>>>>
>>>> My question is: Can you use OH2BU/0 and then claim you are on OH0???
>>>> Maybe you can in WPX contest, but what if you use OH2BU/0 in SAC? Then
>>>> you're definitely in/on OH0...
>>>>
>>>> In that case I think we need new rules in SAC.
>>>>
>>>> 73 de Jan, SM3CER
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- From: Jari Jussila
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 9:49 AM
>>>> To: Mats Strandberg
>>>> Cc: Rune Wande ; TOEC
>>>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Fw: Vad är detta?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mats et al.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for good comments!
>>>>
>>>> You're right, I forgot the Canadian example.They have been protesting
>>>> about it for years.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Finland does not have (official) districts any more, so when you
>>>> come
>>>> here with your CEPT-license, you have to use OH/RM2D or OH0/RM2D. You
>>>> can tell your QTH by adding the (old) district after your call as
>>>> OH/RM2D/2 or OH/RM2D/OH2. But, let say, if you use OH2/RM2D I don't
>>>> think nobody is to protest ....
>>>>
>>>> In fact, as you can use any number after your call, you can choose a
>>>> good number for eg. WPX-contest. I could use OH2BU/4 from my OH2 QTH
>>>> and
>>>> have a bigger pile-up.
>>>>
>>>> 2) From authorities point of view, they are interesting only in the
>>>> letters an numbers before "/". Whatever comes after "/" is unofficial
>>>> and a amateur insider thing, being /QRP, /QRPP, /QRO, /MM, /AM, /P, /M,
>>>> /LH, /SA, /S, /60 etc ....
>>>>
>>>> 3) Yes .... when I write OH2BU/SA in N1MM+, it gives Sweden as my
>>>> country.
>>>>
>>>> Jari, OH2BU
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5.2.2016 10:20, Mats Strandberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also had this Canadian example in mind because I worked VE7AHA/KH6
>>>>> on 40
>>>>> meters in 2013 or 2014. However, the same VE7AHA is now active from
>>>>> Hawaii
>>>>> as KH6/VE7AHA, so maybe they changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> See you both in a week :)
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 de Mats RM2D
>>>>>
>>>>> PS I realized that my note about RA/SM5XYZ needs to be clarified a
>>>>> little.
>>>>> What I meant to say is that the same RA/SM5XYZ must be used for work
>>>>> in all
>>>>> Russia, and the consequence is that you can work from three different
>>>>> DXCC-countries with the same call... Even 4 if the person gets permit
>>>>> for
>>>>> Franz Jozef Land (which I doubt) as this is an area that requires
>>>>> additional permit apart from the visa to visit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Den 5 februari 2016 11:06 skrev Rune Wande<rune.wande at bahnhof.se>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terve Jari!
>>>>>> As far as I know, Canadians working from the USA are to be using
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> call like this example: VE8RCS/W6.
>>>>>> Also as far as I know I am not "allowed" to use W5/SM5COP as I have a
>>>>>> USA
>>>>>> call of my own! I am supposed
>>>>>> to be using my US call. But that has nothing to do with this
>>>>>> dicussion, Hi!
>>>>>> See you at the CCF meeting!
>>>>>> 73 de Rune SM5COP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Den 2016-02-05 kl. 01:48, skrev Jari Jussila:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mats, Janne, Ingemar etc ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My good friend Ben, OH6PA; gave you a good explanation on what these
>>>>>>> OH#xx/S and /SA stations are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But to have a broaded perpective, we should remember that nowadays
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> prefix of the country you visit, is not given after your own call
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> before it. Eg, when I come to Sweden, I'm SM/OH2BU etc.
>>>>>>> Or ... if you come to Finland, it will be OH/SM5AJV. I guess it's
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> one country in the world which use the old system having it's prefix
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> the visiting call sign, That is Bermuda, still giving the call sign
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> OH2BU/VP9.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All contest programs should understand the new way of having the
>>>>>>> visiting
>>>>>>> countries prefix before the call sign and thus understanding, that
>>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>>> comes after the call sign after the "/" is not valid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And to go a bit further to the Finnish licensing ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Finland it's not compulsory to use /M, /MM, /AM, or /P. You can
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> them if you like. In fact, in Finland I can have whatever I want
>>>>>>> after the
>>>>>>> "/" in the end of my call sign. I can use from my QTH here close to
>>>>>>> Helsinki OH2BU/SM or OH2BU/P5 or - as Ben wrote, OH2BU/60 if I some
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> have that anniversary. If it's wise to use OH2BU/P5 is another thing
>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>> but it surely would be legal ..... Whick remains me, that when I
>>>>>>> back in
>>>>>>> early 1990's was on Malyj Vysotskij (R1MV), we had to use the call
>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>> given by the Russian PTT - it was OH2BU/MVI written in the license.
>>>>>>> It was
>>>>>>> more that twenty G-stations, who said that we are pirates, because
>>>>>>> /M would
>>>>>>> be England ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finska "Amatörradioföreskrift" säger så här: "Förutom vad som
>>>>>>> fastställts
>>>>>>> om anropssignalen i 1–4 mom. får efter anropssignalen också fogas
>>>>>>> ett
>>>>>>> tilläggstecken eller en teckenserie, avskild med ett snedstreck."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jari, OH2BU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4.2.2016 22:31, Jan-Eric Rehn wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hej Ben!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tack för svaret och förklaringen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oavsett om det är tillåtet att ha dessa tillägg i Finland, så blir
>>>>>>>> det
>>>>>>>> väldigt problematiskt för alla loggprogram. XXXXX/SA blir ju SM,
>>>>>>>> Sverige
>>>>>>>> som land och för prefixjägare blir det SA0 som prefix. Vad /S blir
>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>> loggprogrammen vet jag inte - kanske okänt land. Strul blir det i
>>>>>>>> vilket
>>>>>>>> fall som helst. Och att det sedan förekommer en svensk signal med
>>>>>>>> samma
>>>>>>>> tillägg är ännu underligare (SM6AAL/S). I Sverige är ju inte ett
>>>>>>>> sådant
>>>>>>>> call tillåtet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vad jag känner till, så är det bara ett fåtal tillägg man kan göra
>>>>>>>> efter
>>>>>>>> ett call - /AM, /M, /MM och /P och kanske något/några till och
>>>>>>>> vilka de
>>>>>>>> flesta loggprogram förstår. T.ex. är ju inte /QRP ett godkänt
>>>>>>>> tillägg efter
>>>>>>>> ett call, även om många använder det. Jag tror det t.o.m. finns
>>>>>>>> någon
>>>>>>>> contest som har i sina regler, att dom som kör QRP ska använda /QRP
>>>>>>>> efter
>>>>>>>> callet. Inte bra. Jag hörde också i REF Contest flera franska
>>>>>>>> stationer som
>>>>>>>> använde nummerbeteckningarna på sina "departments" efter sina call,
>>>>>>>> t.ex.
>>>>>>>> F5XXX/24. Inte heller bra.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nåja, callen stod under rubriken "Retired Callsigns/prefixes:", så
>>>>>>>> det
>>>>>>>> innebär väl, att de fanns med i några tidigare cty.dat, men att de
>>>>>>>> nu tas
>>>>>>>> bort igen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hej Janne
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jaha du undrar varför man har tillägg till suffix förstår jag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jo det är så att 2 gånger i året hålls en antikradio aktivitet
>>>>>>>> Den största och viktigaste går av stapeln vid Finlands
>>>>>>>> självständighetsdag
>>>>>>>> den 6 december
>>>>>>>> Den andra är Finlands armés flaggdag då det hålles många parader
>>>>>>>> Den infaller på Marsalk Mannerheims födelsedag den 4 Juni
>>>>>>>> Aktiviteten begränsad till 80m och 40m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aktiviteten med radio består i att man aktiverar gamla militär
>>>>>>>> radiostationer
>>>>>>>> Som man restaurerat.
>>>>>>>> först kör man CW sedan AM
>>>>>>>> Nu lommer jag it tillägget i suffixet
>>>>>>>> Enligt telekonventionen får man göra tilläg till SUFFIXET tex om
>>>>>>>> man
>>>>>>>> fyller
>>>>>>>> 50 år så sätt dit /50
>>>>>>>> Första två teckknen i en anrops signal hänvisar till i vilket land
>>>>>>>> stationen
>>>>>>>> befinner sig och det är obligatoriskt
>>>>>>>> Sen till det som förbryllar dig förstår jag (Jag har påpekat detta
>>>>>>>> till
>>>>>>>> traditionsradisterna att det finns frågor om detta)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /SA = Suomen Armeija (Finska Armén)
>>>>>>>> De stationer som har det tillägget använder stationer som har
>>>>>>>> använts i
>>>>>>>> WWII
>>>>>>>> icke enbart finsktillverkade
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /S = Sotilas = Soldat Det tillägget användes av stationer som
>>>>>>>> använts av
>>>>>>>> någon armé
>>>>>>>> ( Jag kör OI6SP/S med Ra200 alltså = /S Kör jag med 2W-Br/40 =/SA )
>>>>>>>> Stationer som har tillägg efter anrops signalen måste ha en armé
>>>>>>>> station
>>>>>>>> som
>>>>>>>> är minst 30 år gammal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alltså detta /SA har inget att göra med svenska PREFIXE SA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hälsa Rune
>>>>>>>> Och fins det flera frågor fins jag på Radiomässan i Eskilstuna 2
>>>>>>>> aprill
>>>>>>>> Får gärna förklaras i QTC angående Prefix och Suffix
>>>>>>>> Mailet med svar får du gärna sätt ut i TOEC spridningen
>>>>>>>> Aktiviteten är ingen tävling
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73's de Ben OH6PA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan-Eric Rehn"<
>>>>>>>> jan-eric.rehn at telia.com>
>>>>>>>> To:<oh6pa at sral.fi>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 7:29 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Fw: [TOEC] Vad är detta?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hej Ben!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vet du vad detta är???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>> SSA HF Contest Manager
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- From: Rune Wande
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 6:13 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: toec at contesting.com ; Jan-Eric rehn
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Vad är detta?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> En som säkert vet är OH6PA.
>>>>>>>>> Han går nog att nå lätt och på svenska.
>>>>>>>>> 73 de Rune SM5COP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Den 2016-02-04 kl. 18:09, skrev Jan-Eric Rehn:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hej Mats!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nej, jag har inte skrivit till “dem”. Vilka dem menar du att jag
>>>>>>>>>> skulle
>>>>>>>>>> ha skrivit till?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Mats Strandberg
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 5:59 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Jan-Eric Rehn
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: TOEC
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TOEC] Vad är detta?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Synnerligen märkligt...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 73 de Mats LRR
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> PS Antar att du skrivit till dem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Den 4 februari 2016 19:55 skrev Jan-Eric Rehn<
>>>>>>>>>> jan-eric.rehn at telia.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hej!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CTY-2602 Country Files - 04 February 2016 har kommit idag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Där hittar jag följande info:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * OH1BGG/SA, OH1FJ/S, OH1SJ/S, OH1TX/SA, OH2BMB/SA,
>>>>>>>>>> OH2BNX/SA,
>>>>>>>>>> OH2MEE/SA,
>>>>>>>>>> OH2NAS/SA, OH2ZY/S, OH3FJQ/SA, OH3HB/S, OH3HHO/SA, OH3KRB/S,
>>>>>>>>>> OH3MY/S,
>>>>>>>>>> OH6FA/SA,
>>>>>>>>>> OH6FSQ/S, OH6K/S, OH6QR/SA, OH9AR/S, OI3V/S, OI3V/SA, OI6SP/S
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> OI7AX/S
>>>>>>>>>> in Finland, OH
>>>>>>>>>> * SM6AAL/S in Sweden, SM
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /S och /SA - vad är det för konstiga hemsnickrade tillägg?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OH1BGG/SA blir ju SM, Sverige i alla loggprogram och SA0 som
>>>>>>>>>> prefix.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Inget som PTS ligger bakom i alla fall.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 73 de Janne, SM3CER
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
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