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[TowerTalk] Finding North, Redux

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Finding North, Redux
From: k3hx@juno.com (tttt ccccc)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:02:36 -0400
Looked at some different dates.

Worst case found during a cursory search was @10 minutes in time which
came

out to about 2 degrees (on one side.)

You are right.  Should have checked different dates.

Embarassed but wiser,

Tim  K3HX       



On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:33:21 +0000 alsopb <alsopb@gloryroad.net> writes:
> Look at some different dates.  Today is the beginning of fall and the
> error is minor.  You will find errors up to 15 minutes.  Also the
> error could actually be double since the error may put the shadow on
> the wrong side of true North.  You'd end up "correcting" in the 
> wrong
> direction.
> 
> 15 minutes = 7.5 degrees.  Thus a worst case error 15 degrees would 
> be
> possible.  Our isogonic is 8.5 degrees.  This error can be larger 
> than
> the correction itself.
> 
> 73 de Brian/K3KO 
> 
> tttt ccccc wrote:
> > 
> > Dear Pete N4ZR,
> > 
> > Here we go again!
> > 
> > I figure that about now you will be getting static from some 
> poster child
> > for
> > 
> > anal retentive syndrome about the inaccuracy of the "shadow" 
> method.
> > 
> > Here's some ammo:
> > 
> > I'm a serious amateur astronomer and it is really important to 
> know where
> > north
> > 
> > is for telescope alignment purposes.
> > 
> > I've got a US Navy celestial navigation program which I've used 
> for
> > years.  (it
> > 
> > runs on DOS so it works......every time, never locks up, never 
> burps or
> > gives me
> > 
> > messages about how stupid I am....HI!)
> > 
> > Anyway, I looked you up on the DX Cluster's Buckmaster listing and 
> ran
> > sunrise,
> > 
> > transit (also called solar noon.....the time when the sun is due 
> south)
> > and sundown
> > 
> > for 22 Sep 2001 at your QTH.  You may use these to contrive an 
> offset
> > from the
> > 
> > times given in the paper.
> > 
> > Converted to EDST:
> > 
> > Sunrise 0700
> > 
> > Transit 1305
> > 
> > Sunset  1908
> > 
> > If you split the difference , you get 1304 as the middle of the 
> day.
> > 
> > OH, THE HORROR!!
> > 
> > I ran a position for the sun at your QTH at 1304 and it is 179.7 
> degrees.
> >  Or about
> > 
> > 3 tenths of a degree from due south.  There are several factors 
> that
> > contribute to this
> > 
> > offset, the most prominent is that the earth has traveled in the 
> orbit
> > about the sun
> > 
> > during the day.
> > 
> > Another source of joy for the "picky-picky" crowd is the fact that 
> the
> > sunrise-
> > 
> > sunset times are typically for an airport which may be some 
> distance
> > away.
> > 
> > Trivial.  Perhaps a degree or so......no big deal.
> > 
> > Considering the relatively broad bandwidths of HF and VHF beams, 
> it seems
> > that
> > 
> > the "shadow" method is PLENTY  accurate enough.
> > 
> > Polaris is a pretty good way to find north but this method may 
> involve
> > climbing the
> > 
> > tower at night.  Also, the maximum "error" for Polaris is about 44
> > arcminutes or
> > 
> > something just less than .75 degree.  There are times which can be
> > predicted
> > 
> > when Polaris is either directly north or south of true north 
> (upper and
> > lower
> > 
> > culmination) but again, for ham purposes, it is a bit much.  
> Telescope
> > folk, however
> > 
> > really have to be on the button or things will "drift" out of the 
> field
> > of view.
> > 
> > Well, have to boogie.  Our astronomy club is having a public "star 
> party"
> > tonight and
> > 
> > I can't wait to wow 'em with my new, fairly big (yup.....size does
> > matter.....HI HI!!)
> > 
> > refractor.
> > 
> > 73
> > 
> > Tim  K3HX
> > 
> > Cw Elitist
> > 
> > QRP Snob (except on 160 where I run an amp in a futile attempt to
> > compensate
> > 
> >                 for a really short antenna with a really crummy 
> ground screen..HI!)
> > 
> > Old Fart        QRV 1964
> > 
> > 20 WPM Extra    Since 1986
> > 
> > Draft Dodger    Enlisted within weeks of turning 17
> > 
> > Zoomie          USAF 66-70
> > 
> > Weekend Warrior OH Air Guard 71-72
> > 
> > On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 08:55:48 -0400 Pete Smith 
> <n4zr@contesting.com>
> > writes:
> > >
> > > Awww.... the true North thread is reborn.
> > >
> > > Maybe we can nip this in the bud.  Get your local paper and find 
> out
> > > when
> > > local sunrise and sunset are.  Split the difference.  When that 
> time
> > > arrives, go down to the tower and see which way its shadow 
> points.
> > > That's
> > > true North.
> > >
> > > 73, Pete N4ZR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > List Sponsored by AN Wireless:  AN Wireless handles Rohn tower
> > > systems,
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> > >
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> > 
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