Hey Tom,
See my comments below:
 Original Message 
From: "Tom Rauch" <w8ji@akorn.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>; "Mike" <W4EF@dellroy.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Re: Force12
> > What you say is true if the characteristic impedance of the line is
> > equal to the system reference impedance (Zo). In other words, if your
> > are changing the length of a 50 ohm feedline in a 50 ohms system, then
> > the only thing that can improve VSWR would be additional loss from the
> > line (e.g. the VSWR will be constant along the length of a lossless
> > line). Thus, system bandwidth will be the same at any point along the
> > length of the lossless line whose Zo matches the system Zo.
>
> What Wes is saying is ALWAYS correct Mike.
>
>
> > If the line Zo is different than the system Zo (e.g. the classic case
> > of 75 ohm CATV cable used in a 50 ohm system), then the direction of
> > the load reactance change versus frequency can have a significant
> > bearing on the system bandwidth. In this case, the length of the line
> > also plays a significant role.
>
> Except for effects of losses:
>
> 1.) The SWR on the 75ohm line remains constant with length of
> the 75ohm line.
>
Yes, but only if you are measuring VSWR referenced against 75 ohms.
If your are in a 50 ohm system, then the VSWR measured (relative to 50 ohms)
will change as a function distance along the 75 ohm line
> 2.) The SWR on the 50ohm line remains constant with length of
> the 50ohm line.
>
> None of this has anything to do at all with 50ohm line length
> changing, and the SWR or bandwidth improving on that 50 ohm line
> as the length is made longer.
>
> A 50ohm transmission line can perform NO matching function to a
> 50ohm transmission line when it is connected in series as a
> normal transmission line, with the exception of an SWR
> improvement through additional loss.
>
I am confused, I thought that is what I said??
> Let's say the load is 35 ohms and the transmission line 50 ohms.
> Any length of transmission line will have a 50/35= 1.43 : 1 SWR
> anywhere along that line regardless of length.
>
Yes, quite correct.
> If the line is 75 ohms, SWR on the line will be 75/35 or 2.14 : 1.
>
Yes, of course, but switch over to a 50 ohm reference and then
mover your 50 ohm VSWR meter along the length of the line.
At 1/4 wavelength from the 35 ohm load, the 50 ohm VSWR will
be 160/50 = 3.2:1. Move another 1/4 wavelength (total 1/2 wavelength)
from the load and the 50 ohm VSWR will be 50/35 = 1:43:1 VSWR.
> This is why the impedance appears as a circle centered on the
> normalized impedance of a Smith Chart! I certainly hope we are not
> telling people that the Smith Chart, used before we we born and
> still used today, is wrong!
No, I haven't given up faith in the Smith Chart. Its a great tool.
I think the nature of our disagreement may have been due to my capricious
response to your original post. I wasn't following the thread and didn't
realize
that you were talking strictly about the length of a 50 ohm cable in a 50 ohm
system. And even then, I am embarassed to say, it took my more than a few
seconds to convince myself that it was strictly true in that case :)
>
> The only exception is loss.
In the case where the line Zo matches the system impedance, I would agree.
>
> 73, Tom W8JI
> W8JI@contesting.com
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