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## [TowerTalk] Re: Force12

 To: [TowerTalk] Re: Force12 W8JI@contesting.com (Tom Rauch) Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:14:14 -0400
 ```Hi Yuri, We always can learn useful things when people disagree. Rather than call you names and insult you in return, let me point out something useful to people using stubs. > Nice try to dance out of it :-) Who is talking about coaxial > dipoles? So it worked for some 50 years, now you "calculate" it > doesn't? While I certainly respect your and K7GCO's technical abilities and clear logical thinking, it appears you may be far off base in this. Looking at a high dipole on EZnec, a #12 wire dipole has an impedance of 67 j0 at resonance on 3.7 Mhz A RG-8 shorted stub resonant on 3.7 MHz has an input impedance of 2700 ohms j0. The parallel combination is 65 ohms, and the stub only adds a few percent of loss. Not too bad at resonance. On 3.5 MHz the antenna Z is 60 -93j (SWR 4.63). The parallel stub is 124.8 +560j Now let's look at how each part of stub impedance affects the system. The combined impedance of the stub and antenna is 64-28j and the SWR is 1.75:1. That looks good, and if we just leap to a conclusion it looks like the stub helped cancel reactance. Now let's use a lossless stub: With lossless stub across the feedpoint SWR is 4.44 Woops! The reactance only changes the SWR from 4.63:1 down to 4.44 : 1 So much for the misplaced notion reactance of the stub offsets or cancels reactance of the antenna! Now let's just add a parallel 125 ohm resistor, instead of a 125 +561J stub. This would be pure loss resistance equal to the resistance of the stub: SWR is now 1.88:1 Very clearly, the SWR decrease from 4.63 down to 1.75 from the stub is almost entirely due to the added loss resistance of the stub. Indeed the primary way a parallel stub adds bandwidth is through loss resistance. Bandwidth will get better if we use an RG-58 stub, because loss is higher with RG-58. The better the cable is, the less sense it makes to add it. As a matter of fact there is very little disadvantage to just using a resistor over a stub, if the goal is bandwidth! Now this applies to the Coaxial dipole, or to stub systems for nulling out adjacent bands, and stubs used to load antennas. Stubs have to used carefully, or we can add more loss than we might expect. It isn't that I just don't trust level-headed technical advice and direct to-the-point concise answers from you and GCO, it's just that I have looked at stubs many times over the years. 73, Tom W8JI W8JI@contesting.com List Sponsored by AN Wireless: AN Wireless handles Rohn tower systems, Trylon Titan towers, coax, hardline and more. Also check out our self supporting towers up to 100 feet for under \$1500!! http://www.anwireless.com ----- FAQ on WWW: http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk Submissions: towertalk@contesting.com Administrative requests: towertalk-REQUEST@contesting.com Problems: owner-towertalk@contesting.com ```
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