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[Towertalk] Re. HF2V

To: <>
Subject: [Towertalk] Re. HF2V
From: (
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 22:14:22 -0600
N4KG comments inserted below.

On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 21:40:32 -0400 "Tom Rauch" <>
> While it makes good marketing hype, the number of countries worked 
> has little to do with transmitting antenna performance, unless 
> something is seriously wrong.

N4KG:  For the most part, this is true, until you reach 250-280
and have to work over the poles to finish off the rest, THEN
transmitting performance makes the difference between getting
there and NOT.  When I added my 130 ft high dipoles, Central
and SE Asians became MUCH easier to put in the log.

> One reason so many people have dismal results with base-loaded 
> antennas is they swallow the "BS" about only needing a few radials.
N4KG:  True.  KZ4V had 120 radials under her base loaded HF2V
with NO top loading wires.  The radials were probably in the range
of 35 to 40 ft which admittedly reduced performance on 80M.

The REAL convincing observation was that she moved from being
one of the LAST to get through the pileups with her HF2V to being 
competitive in the pileups after her 90 ft tower was installed with the 
inverted vee and vertically polarized Delta Loop.  These antennas were 
obviously MUCH more competitive in the pileups.

> Factually, there is almost no difference between base and top 
> loading  if the ground system is good. Top loading does provide about
> times the radiation resistance of base loading, but top loading 
> generally has (for a given radiator size) less bandwidth. 

N4KG:  HUH?  Since when does higher radiation resistance result 
in "LESS BANDWIDTH" (assuming the same height of radiator) ?

> If the ground system is poor, top loading can reduce loss by up to a 
> factor of three or four. If the ground system is good, efficiency 
> changes are often not measurable.    

N4KG:  What value of ground resistance is "good"?
            What does it take to reach this level?
> Most of the DXCC totals do with hours operated, location, and 
> operating skill. I'd say transmitting antenna performance is way 
> down  the ladder, unless someone really has a poor antenna

N4KG:  Again, basically true UNTIL you start talking about polar path

> With a poor TX antenna, you normally just have to wait a bit longer 
> to get through. (Of course some systems, like the Gaps and other no-
> radial or small radial verticals are real dogs and give less-than 
> mobile performance, but the HVF2 with a GOOD ground system does not 
> fall in that class.)  There really won't be very many countries you 
> won't be able to work. A better transmitting system makes things go 
> faster when you call, operating time and ability to hear is what 
> builds country totals.
> > NN6K 80M DXCC  =  80 countries  with HF2V
> > 
> > KZ4V 80M DXCC = 280 countries
> > with inverted vee at 90 ft (NE/SW)
> > and vertically polarized Delta Loop at 90 ft (NW / SE)
> > 
> > N4KG 80M DXCC = 322 countries
> > with multiple dipoles and inverted vees from 70 ft to 130 ft
> > plus Full Size or Top Loaded single Verticals
> > 
> > I wish more of my competitors used HF2V's on 80M :-)
> 73, Tom W8JI

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