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Re: [TowerTalk] Re: time to start using the radios in the freqs theyare

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Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Re: time to start using the radios in the freqs theyare going use turn up the amps. : Air Force (& Wal-Mart?) RFIin Florida
From: "Tower (K8RI)" <>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:05:58 -0400
List-post: <>

> That would be construed as intentional jamming, I was speculating
> about the impact of inadvertent (unintentional) rfi.

It would depend on your intent.
Beacons are not out of line, but I believe are must conform to certain

I'm building and have been for some time, an EME system on 2.4 Gig.  There
are others in the area also interested in 2.4 gig, but some are afraid of
just what you mention. If they start up a line of sight QSO and wipe out a
WiFi network they will get the blame even though they are licensed for the
frequency and the WiFi devices are considered unlicensed and come with a tag
that says they may not cause interferrence.

What do you suppose the results would be if I had the EME station operable
and dropped the dish to horizontal to talk to some one slightly over the
horizon?  Certainly the beam would be narrow, but it would be intense.  Even
a few watts into 30 db creates one strong signal.

> I was thinking that the unintented noisy consequence from the
> inadvertent rfi might cause a Ham to stop sending unidentified
> transmissions into a repeater -- it was not a suggestion that
> anyone jam a *legal* user (WalMart).

Walmart would cease to be legal if they cause interferrence. In our case we
have a receiver at the repeater site for the link.  If they cause desense
what is our legal recourse?  In the case of WiFi it says they may not cause
interferrence and must take what they get.  With the TSA behind the RFID
system it potentially could mean the loss of that spectrum if problems

> This is radically different than BPL where the promoters are
> knowingly lying about the destructive impact of a secondary user

Is it? I don't think so. I'd bet they know about the possibility of
interferrence to us and really don't care.  Due to the hype they have given
Homeland Security we may legally have priority, but if there is a problem
who do you suppose will be seen in the favourable light?
I really don't think there is any difference as far as enroachment and a
strong likelyhood of  interferrence. The only difference is the frequency
and the amount covered.  In the case of RFID they have the backing of the

> (BPL) upon primary users -- there one may freely operate normal
> modes and power levels without concern for the BPL system --
> they (BPL vendors) are required to defend their gear from
> *legal primary users* including Amateur Radio, government
> and military users, etc.
> This does not mean pointing large beams at BPL devices and
> pumping a KW of digital RF into the beam -- in that case
> one is not operating for the purpose of communicating with

But we have digital systems in place and will be expanding the APRS into
440.  I'm not saying to just point and shoot, but with systems in place, or
going into place there are going to be conflicts around the country.

Suppose that during a storm watch we end up near them.  What then?
Then there is the strong likely hood of point to point with them in the
middle, although as I said we here in Michigan are limited to 50 watts out.

> another Op.  One is also supposed to only use the power level
> necessary for successful communication, not the maximum
> legal just because one owns an amp.

If you are working another station and interferrence comes on in the case of
the RFID equipment.  Do you legally increase the power until the other
station can again hear you, or give up?  What if it's a weather watch and
the mobile is having problems hearing.  These are not just "what ifs". In
our area they quite likely are a case of "will happen".  I should mention
that our stations are working directly with the EOC and the equipment (at
the EOC) was purchased with either county or federal funds.  They have
installed a complete ham station at the 911 center and it is usually the
operating net control for many functions.

Roger Halstead (K8RI, EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
N833R, World's Oldest Debonair (S# CD-2)
> 73, doc kd4e
> Kevin Adam wrote:
> > N9IWW time turn on the radios and amps.
> >  I think its time to turn on the Radios Ands amps setup digital mode @
> > Maybe even a Beacon there would work point them all at Wal-Mart. Then
> > they'll change there freq away from the amateur bands. Since we can 1500
> > for digital mode low power for beacons we need to all band together on
> >
> >
> > Kevin Adam
> > 1239 W. Till Road
> > Fort Wayne, Indiana 46825-2145
> >
> > Mobile (260) 704-4080
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > [] On Behalf Of doc
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:42 AM
> > To: TowerTalk Reflector;
> > Subject: [TowerTalk] Re: Air Force (& WalMart?) RFI in Florida
> >
> > I think this thread may belong on the so I
> > have copied it there.
> >
> > That said, one wonders if operating 440 in WalMart might set off
> > the inventory alarm systems?  Depending on how well their systems
> > are made might FRS/GMRS units get into them, and perhaps
> > even harmonics from a MURS or 2m HT in close proximity to an
> > unidentified wireless inventory security system receiver?
> >
> > An annoying 2m kerchunker operating from inside a WalMart might
> > find himself causing an even more annoying bleep, bleep, bleep!
> > inventory alarm in response!
> >
> > Giggle ... doc
> >
> > Jim Rhodes wrote:
> >
> >>These are also coming soon to a Wal-Mart near you. They are asking their
> >>suppliers to include them in shelf packs to do inventory control at the
> >>store level.
> >>Re: [TowerTalk] Air Force RFI in Florida
> >>
> >>>>See:
> >>>
> >>>Yup!  That is the system.
> >>>
> >>>I hope there aren't a lot of hams operating digital in those areas.
> >>>
> >>>Roger Halstead (K8RI, EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> >>>N833R, World's Oldest Debonair (S# CD-2)
> >>>
> >
> >
> -- 
> Thanks! & 73, doc kd4e
> West Central Florida
> Drake, Heathkit, Kenwood, TenTec, Yaesu
> Radio Life:
> Linux-Incompatible hardware is defective!
> USA Pres. Election 2004:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> _______________________________________________
> See:  for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more.  Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
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See:  for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather 
Stations", and lot's more.  Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions 
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