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Re: [TowerTalk] Elevated Guys ??

To: <>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Elevated Guys ??
From: "Al Williams" <>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:06:30 -0800
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I recently dug a number of holes to place 10' posts about 3 to 4  feet into 
the ground for attaching a deer fence.
Some of the posts are leaning a bit with only the deer fence straining on 
them--not even the deer running into them yet!
These were in freshly dug holes but with the refill hand-packed and no 

Isn't "backyard engineering" a misnomer?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Buller" <>
To: "Alton J Drummond Jr" <>; "TowerTalk Reflector" 
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Elevated Guys ??

> Alton,
>  Take great care installing elevated guys.  There are a lot of vector 
> forces to account for and Dave is right...get an engineer to do the 
> design.  I did not do that thinking that 4 feet in concrete and 6 feet 
> above ground would do.  It did not!  Do not use backyard engineering 
> methods.
>  I used 10 foot steel 8" pipes that were schedule 80....filled with 
> concrete.  The pipes bend, but the earth moved.  You need a massive amount 
> of concret under elevated guys.  I did not have enough concrete under 
> mine.  I need to dig them out and redo them, but then again that is a lot 
> of work.  You need to account for the "leverage" that is applied to the 
> top of the elevated guy point and what it is doing through the fulcrum 
> into the ground.  The ground cannot move and the pipe should not bend. 
> Most of the forces are along the line of the guy line...of course.
>  If I were to do it again, I would triple the amount of concrete and make 
> provision to weld on some braces that would be in the ground along the 
> lines of the guy wires so when the energy is transmtted through the guy 
> lines the braces would have to bare down from the fulcrum and the other 
> would bare up.  The braces would be in the ground....and in concrete. 
> Think of burying a "T" upside down in the ground and the pouring concrete. 
> The top of the "T" would be in line with the guys.  That would give the 
> elevated guy point something to push against in two directions...down 
> thrust and up trust.  Gobs of concrete too.
>  I would also would have used "H" steel beams with an extra 1/2" plate 
> steel welded between the verticle component of the "H".
>  Dave is correct.  Get a PE to do the work.  Well worth the dollars.
>  Lee - K0WA
> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you 
> don't have any Common Sense - get some and use it.  If you can't find any 
> common sense, ask for help from somebody who has some common sense.
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