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Re: [TowerTalk] Epoxied bolts

To: AA6DX - Mark <>,"Thin Air Communications" <>,<>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Epoxied bolts
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 18:24:00 +0000
List-post: <>
Mark / Michael:

Please see my post on this subject yesterday. 

I am involved in this type of thing daily.

L shaped or J-bolts are not stronger than straight bolts both being properly 
designed and installed. The two limiting factors are the inherent strength of 
the bolt in tension and the strength of the concrete area that has to be 
developed to resist a concrete cone shaped pull out failure. In theory you 
design the installation such that the strength of the concrete is just a bit 
more than the strength of the bolt. This way the bolt fails in tension which is 
a less sudden type of failure due to the ability of the bolt to fail 
inelastically, i.e., deform. Concrete does not fail in this manner. It has 
virtually no inelastic deformation, it is a sudden failure.

As I stated earlier J-bolts, L shaped bolts actually can fail sooner than their 
tensile strength due to crushing of the concrete at their crook or bend area. 

Post-installed chemical (epoxy) and mechanical anchors are also design to 
behave the same as cast in place anchors. The idea is to develop the tensile 
strength of the anchor before you fail the concrete. The limiting factors in 
both CIP(cast in place) and Post Installed is the size and shape of the 
concrete area they are installed in. Imagaine a block of concrete versus a 
large floor slab. The distance to the free edge of the concrete area and depth 
of the concrete versus the depth of embedment of the anchor, etc.

There is no limitation to the use of epoxy chemical anchors to tensile loading 
if one neglects the creep effect. Most anchors for amateur towers are not in 
constant tension. Look at the base of a free standing crank-up, the anchors 
only see tension, if at all, when there is a lateral force caused by wind or 
seismic events. Then only the anchors on the upwind side of the force direction 
may see tension load and only for a short duration, not for a constant duration.

Some local building codes do not allow post installed chemical anchors for 
overhead use (ceiling installation where the load is always in tension) and in 
some  anchor situations due to the creep effect and fire resistance. They 
require that a special type of mechanical post installed anchors be used 
(undercut style).

Google, "Hilti", "American Concrete Institute", and other sites for a great 
deal more information on concrete anchoring both CIP and post-installed.

Lonberg Design Group, Ltd.

H. Lonberg, P.E., S.E / KR7X
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "AA6DX - Mark" <> 

> Michael ..So far, your conclusion does not mesh with what I have read at 
> various sites, and in the past on this reflector..... But then, the 
> companies are selling their glue .... 
> but but but ... to engineer types, so... must be truthful? 
> Hmmm ... watching this thread, as I have a back porch that is going to be a 
> base for a crank-up --- Mark, AA6DX 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Thin Air Communications" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:45 AM 
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Epoxied bolts 
> I am not an engineer nor do I pay one on TV. But the use of epoxied bolts 
> from my experience drafting structural plans is limited to objects in sheer 
> and never in tension. Meaning that yes, the epoxied bolt is no where near as 
> strong and solid as a "J" or "L" or caged bolt in tension. The whole 
> reasoning behind a "J" or "L" is so the bolt has something to grab on to. It 
> is possible to break the epoxy connection and lift the bolt from the hole. I 
> would refrain from epoxying bolts used in tension but would also rely on an 
> engineer to evaluate the application. 
> Michael Wood 
> _______________________________________________ 
> _______________________________________________ 
> TowerTalk mailing list 

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