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Re: [TowerTalk] TT SHUTDOWN (was: 4 awg copper wire and Amp locks)

To: "'Robert Chudek - K0RC'" <>,<>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TT SHUTDOWN (was: 4 awg copper wire and Amp locks)
From: "JC Smith" <>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:04:05 -0700
List-post: <>
Hi Bob,

I've used scraps of copper tubing (I was a mechanical contractor) to build
all sorts of low resistance conductors and busses, mostly for 12-V stuff.
One of the things I did, without really thinking about why, was slide the
tubing over the end of a ground rod (after grinding off the "mushroom") and
clamping the tubing to the rod with an acorn clamp.  It just seemed logical
that I would end up with good contact that way, but I believe it has the
additional advantage of providing the straightest possible path to ground
(don't want to confuse those electrons).  For calculating equivalent DC load
capacity you can compare the cross sectional area of a particular tube size
to the cross sectional area of a particular gauge of solid copper wire.  For
AC, the tube is even better because of the increased surface area.  How much
better depends on the frequency.  The higher the frequency, the shallower
into the copper the current travels (at least that's how I learned it).

73 - JC, K0HPS

-----Original Message-----
[]On Behalf Of Robert Chudek - K0RC
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TT SHUTDOWN (was: 4 awg copper wire and Amp locks)

Craig, my apology to you, personally, that my "violation" comment was in
reference to the photo on your website. I have to believe that image is a
stock photo from the manufacturer of the product and not something that you
shot yourself.

Since my original post, the variety of responses has me wondering whether
some people are actually reading the messages and comprehending the
information that is being presented! Probably the most appropriate (although
unexpected) comment was by one individual who said the choice of grounding
technology boiled down to "risk assessment".

You don't fool with mother nature. People and their houses (who don't even
own a tower or antenna) have been stuck be lightning... with a variety of
consequences. So I have to agree with "risk assessment"... do nothing, do
the best you can, or take out a second mortgage for a grounding system...
Then sit back and let the dice roll.

Regarding the Amp C-loks, they seem to be in the same price category as the
Cadweld units. And I agree, the copper prices have gone through the roof. In
general, solid and stranded wire are in the same price range. (I'm seriously
thinking about pulling out all my house wiring and selling it on the scrap
market... I'll just get me some of them wireless extension cords I saw
earlier this year.)

One interesting idea that did came out of this thread (so far) is the use of
copper tubing instead of solid wire. I'd like to hear more comments pro/con
about this. I would expect tubing would be more cost effective and equal in
the capability to dissipate the energy in a strike.

Finally... I also agree with you regarding this reflector. I find it a very
useful vehicle for the exchange of ideas. I see the participants' range of
knowledge from those who come here to ask questions and learn, to those who
are the professionals in the specific industry being discussed.

Where I find a problem is in the people who can articulate old wives tales
into sounding reasonable and probable, therefore perpetuating junk science.
Let's try these topics on for size... I need help selecting some good
divining rods to help locate a new well on my acreage. Or more appropriate
for TT, a standard single phase 240 VAC 30 amp circuit for your rotating
tower wired to NEC specs contains how many wires?

73 de Bob - K0RC

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:46:30 -0400
From: Craig Clark <>
Subject: [TowerTalk] TT SHUTDOWN
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

>Well we might as well shut down this Tower Talk reflector for as
>much good as it's doing... I can't believe after weeks of
>discussions regarding proper ground system bonding, this post has
>been made... The picture shows two violations... #1) a stranded
>ground wire and #2) a non exothermic connection.
>73 de Bob - K0RC


Gee. I wonder what Amp is doing selling the Cloks then? They are
specifically sold for attaching stranded copper wire to ground rods
and include a corrosion inhibitor.

Secondly, IMHO copper braid is more of a concern than stranded copper
wire. Properly waterproofed at the ground rod, I think you'd have a
fine ground; no solder to melt or burn out.

My desire was to share pricing on copper wire to inform TT'ers of the
latest HUGE price increase in all copper products.

As for a "violation," well, there are many divergent opinions here on
TT. Get two of us together and you have a conversation. Get three
involved and it always seems to generate an argument......which I am
NOT trying to provoke with my esteemed colleagues.

Craig K1QX

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