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Re: [TowerTalk] Re; 160m radials

To: "'Jim Jarvis'" <>,<>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Re; 160m radials
From: "Michael Ryan" <>
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:12:48 -0400
List-post: <>
You can sure tell the low band season is approaching...same topics up on the
reflectors every year about this time.  Glad for the change of pace ( no
more seabirds and wenches for a while ) and also glad to see the season
arriving.  Last time serious talk about radials lying on the ground was
approached it was suggested AGAIN that radials on the ground are DETUNED by
the ground so looking for wavelengths of some sort or another, etc was more
or less a waste of time. That being said there is a lot around on the net
about radials, the myths, the truths, so pick your poison and hope to hear
you on the air.  - Mike

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Jim Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Re; 160m radials

Dear TT:

I've restrained myself, and have heard good advice on the two topics
concerning short raidals and "elevated" radials.

Restraint fails me.  But I'll be brief.

Re: short radials...put out as many as you 'em into the water.
Make 'em resonant, if you can.  Don't worry about symmetry.  Just do it.

re: 'elevated' radials.  Standing on it, we can SEE where earth is, at
300THZ.  We have no idea where it 'is' at 1.8MHz.  Effectively, it's
someplace down there....(if you want to be scientific, contemplate the index
of refraction, the pseudo -brewster angle, and other modelled phenomena.)
Are on-ground radials really elevated?

Here's a practical solution to the 160m GP/inv. Ell. Issue:

Make it 133' on the hoist, and make 4 radials of 133'.  Shoot it over the
biggest tree you have, and pull it up and over and out, however you can.
Raise radials as much as you can.  Then, fold them back to produce
resonance.  Just get 'em high enough so nobody gets hurt from hitting a
voltage node.

I put one up for 160, in VT, and first QSO was Campbell island.  Terrain is
the big variable.  Ignore the rules, be pragmatic.  An antenna in the air
will outperform a great model, every time.   Worst case, you scrap 30 bucks
worth of wire.



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