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Re: [TowerTalk] what size wire for kilowatt TX ??

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what size wire for kilowatt TX ??
From: KI9A@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:09:26 EST
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
I have a novel idea, just put one up, and see if it works!
 
73 Chuck KI9A
 
 
In a message dated 1/4/2009 5:05:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
martin.s.ewing@gmail.com writes:

Not to  belabor this (and we're stretching the limits of "towertalk"  here)...

FWIW, a quarter wave is not "short" in my view.  I  calculate (using the L <<
lambda approximation in Johnson's Antenna  Engineering Handbook, 3rd ed.) the
following for a 1/10 wavelength vertical  with L/a = 10000 (we are talking
thin wires!):

Z = 7.9 - j1686 ohms  , which happens to be in the same ballpark as your
number.

So that's  the impedance of the "antenna".  Your job, as a system designer is
to  efficiently couple that impedance to 50 ohms resistive. I use TLW  to
suggest a typical L match, which dissipates ~66% of the power in  resistive
coil losses and presents 13.5 kV to the antenna.  Such is  the bane of
typical mobile installations. (.05 wavelength leads to 92% loss  and 19 kV to
the antenna)

A voltage of 13.5 kV (rms - don't let your  kids near this!) into a /Z/ of
~1700 ohms gives a current of 8.1 A.   These are similar to your numbers,
except for including some typical  circuit losses.  So, I guess we don't
disagree - Yes, you need current  to radiate, but you need *lots* of voltage
to produce that  current.

73 Martin AA6E

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Steve  Hunt <steve@karinya.net> wrote:

> Martin, with respect   this is completely wrong.
>
> Take a simple example of a shortened  dipole that's only a
> quarter-wavelength overall length. It has a  feedpoint impedance of about
> 13-j750. If this antenna is radiating 1KW  the current flowing at the
> feedpoint must be SQRT(1000/13)=8.7A - in  other words a lot more current
> than had it been a full half-wave. Only  the real part of the feedpoint
> impedance can dissipate power - that's  why, for a given radiated power
> the current must increase for a drop  in radiation resistance. Matching
> losses will slightly alter this  figure, but I wouldn't expect much loss
> matching this particular  impedance.
>
> It's a complete misunderstanding to think that,  because the total
> feedpoint impedance is high the current must be low.  That would only be
> the case if you didn't try to match the antenna.  Once properly matched,
> the source impedance at the feedpoint will be  the complex conjugate -
> 13+j750 and the reactive component will be  cancelled.
>
> Your example of current distribution on a short  antenna proves nothing.
> Of course the current is almost zero at the  end of the wire, but it can
> be any current you want just a few  electrical degrees back from the end
> given sufficient current  gradient. In my example, the current at the end
> of the dipole will be  close to zero, rising to 8.7A 1/8 wavelength back
> at the feedpoint. If  it had been a halfwave dipole the current would
> have been 3.7A 1/4  wavelength from the end.
>
> If you still disagree, could you  please explain what the current would
> need to be in my shortened  dipole example, assuming it is radiating 1KW.
>
> 73,
>  Steve G3TXQ
>
> Martin Ewing wrote:
> > I'm not buying  that!  Current flow depends on impedance, R+jX, not
>  radiation
> > resistance. Your short whip runs at high voltage and  low current.  There
> is
> > lots of current in the  matching network, but little gets into the antenna
> > wire.   Another way to see it is that the "boundary condition" on current
> >  flow is that it must be zero at the end of the wire (unless there are
>  sparks
> > flying!).  Transforming back a fraction of a  wavelength to the feed
> point,
> > you're still mostly voltage  and little current.
> >
> > A small loop antenna is the  complement, mostly current and little
> voltage.
> >
>  > 73 & Cheers,
> > Martin AA6E
> >
>
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--  
Martin Ewing, AA6E
Branford,  CT
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