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Re: [TowerTalk] Whidbey noise, Tower, NAS Whidbey

To:, "Tower and HF antenna construction topics." <>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Whidbey noise, Tower, NAS Whidbey
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <>
Reply-to: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics." <>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:30:31 -0400
List-post: <">>

Bob Bogash wrote:
>> I haven't been there long enough to get tired of the aircraft noise yet,
>>> although some of the locals are. It's still cool when a P-3 or EA-6B flies
>>> by low enough to see the pilot. My Dad was career Navy; I spent some time on
>>> three different aircraft carriers in my service years in the Navy, and
>>> whenever I have a chance to see the Blue Angels, I go.  I'm told that they
>>> will be phasing in a new F-18 variant for the ECM mission, so we'll see (and
>>> hear, and feel) fewer EA-6Bs and more F-18's in the future.  Cool!
> haven't been there long enough to get tired of the aircraft noise 
> yet,...........  You WILL be!!!
I got to the point where I could sleep within 300 yards of the active. 
> I've been an airplane guy my whole life, Dick,  and live 10 NM south of 
> the Whidbey training strip (at Pt. No Pt.) (also on high bank with its 
> benefits.)  I've previously posted on the value of the high bank vis a 
> vis antenna height.  I used to think the EA-6Bs were noisy - until the 
> F-18G Growlers showed up.  They do nite training at the remote strip 
> (Coupeville) from 2100-2400 local and, despite being 10 miles away, they 
> kept everyone up at nite when they started entering service last summer. 
>   I never heard the Prowlers at this location.
OTOH be happy the F-14's have been retired. To me they are far louder 
than the 18's. From 300 yards I could feel the sound of a 14 on full 
burner with my insides. Not as bad as popping a low E string when 
standing 3 feet in front of a concert amp running over 200 watts of 
music power out though. <:-))
> Hope you got a good deal on that property, and remember their billboard 
> "The Sound of Freedom."  You'll need that understanding in the days to 
> come, when all those Prowlers convert to Growlers (Screamers would be a 
> better name!)
> It's not clear from all the chatter on this reflector that military 
> airports don't have different requirements than civil airports.  For 
> sure - as you've already stated (cool to look a P-3 pilot in the eyes!) 
> military flying involves a lot of low altitude work in the VICINITY of 
> the the airport that is not seen (or allowed) at civil airfields.  The 
> aero chart for the Whidbey NAS, for example, shows a number of MOAs 
> (Military Operational Areas) in the vicinity.
Instrument approaches at civilian airports are LOW too (they do vary 
widely with terrain).  From the Final Approach Fix (FAF) in, which is a 
bit over 5 miles the altitude is 500 feet AGL. (that's 500 feet minus 
nothing and up to plus 100 what ever you are flying.)  At that point I 
have the gear and flaps down and have brought in a fair amount of power 
which means although it's only 3100# it's getting noisy.  When I go into 
the "circle to land" (low level maneuvering to line up with the proper 
runway the power really comes in. With a 2-blade prop the tips can go 
supersonic. From 500 feet that is LOUD and will rattle the dishes in the 
cupboards below. Before going to a 3-blade prop I used to get lots of 
complaints.   A couple years ago, I dropped the nose on climb out to see 
nothing but a windshield full of  rivets on the underside of a 737 
flying right through the pattern at 700 feet. He was where he wasn't 
supposed to be and far lower than he was supposed to be. I don't know 
where he was going, but at pattern altitude I was looking down on him as 
he proceeded on East.

> My knowledge base runs out in this area - specifically as to whether the 
> FAA has the sole (or ANY) jurisdiction with regard to military airfields 
> and the NAS. The FAA documentation all refers to a "Public Use Airport." 
>   NAS Whidbey is NOT a Public Use Airport.  You might want to run the 
> trapline at the NAS as well.
> For 'what-it's-worth', it's not clear with your site location, that 
> you'll need a very tall tower.  My HFTA analysis at my high bluff site 
> shows  basically a foot-for-foot benefit for my height above SL and 
> allows a low tower to appear to be a tall one.
Here in the flat lands, we don't have a spot within 30 miles where the 
terrain gives any advantage.


Roger (K8RI)
> Good luck,
> Bob Bogash
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