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Re: [TowerTalk] outlet ground problems and shack grounds updating info n

Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] outlet ground problems and shack grounds updating info needed...
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:04:34 EDT
List-post: <">>
Fred, please tell us more about your ground loop problem. What are you  
seeing that made you add the extra ground wire? Did something get damaged or  
just what was the issue?
Much of the equipment in use today has a three prong power plug, as you  
know. How have you dealt with making these plugs work with your two conductor  
wiring and receptacles?
Gerald K5GW
In a message dated 7/24/2010 10:16:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, writes:

I have a  grounding question for all you rf experts.

1st off a little about my  system to lay out the reasons for this 
question and where it will lead to  in end.

1:  my old house is 2 wire setup and of course I wish to  ground out my 
outlets and shack better.
2. can NOT cut into walls at  this time or able to find box in attic yet 
to link a new ground there  even. ( at these temps I can not get in attic 
to do the work myself as I  am disabled and can not climb a ladder to get 
in attic to start  with)

OK so with the above here is what I am thinking of doing   :  #12 
stranded thhn green from 1st ground rod at main box and run it  under the 
house and come up threw floor at the outlet and reground it at  the plug 
at that point temp till I can find the right junction boxes and  reqire 
the whole hose as needed .  again this is a winter job not  summer temp 
job to start with.

then I wish to add a 2nd ground rod  outside my shack window attached 
same way via #12 wire under house to the  main rod and then tie it to a 
new 8' rod alrerady in ground outside my  shack.
then of course add a buss bar on outside of the window ( window is  
boarded up with plywood by owner so I left it alone and I will bolt the  
buss bar outside and run bolts threw the plywood so I can attach ground  
wires inside to the bolts and then to my radios and tuners.   I  will be 
maybe 3 feet from window to tie in point at window for all  grounds.

ok here is my question now I am stuck kinda on. CAN I run  and use the 
same ground buss bar and wires to ground my outlet or should  it be 2 
seperate wires to the main box and is #12 thhn going to be good  enough 
for now till I can get rich 1 day and buy better ground wires. all  wires 
will be under house laying there. I can not attach to the house but  1/2 
way across due to I can not get that far under that part of the house.  
Son is too big of a boy to go that far. hahaha

my main concern is  if I don't run 2 wires 1 to outlet and 1 to ground 
rod will it still do a  decent enough job to ground my power side of 
things mostly. I have a  ground loop threw my pc system and the radio 
power if I remove the temp  ground wire I ran across the floor to the 
main panel to just the outlet to  see if that fixed the problems and it 
did of course. so now I need to make  it more perm so to speak on the 
outlet side and run under house before the  xyl trips and kills me for 
her trip on the wire running across the floor  for now. 

I just wish to fix the ground loop mainly which the outlet  fixed with 
the added wire. just worried it may not be big enough wire to  goto the 
ground rod the same way and then back into house from ground rod  to 
outlet ground. and have the radios on the same copper buss bar and wire  
it all to 1 place in the end is my main goal.

defiently dont want  to make a fire trap by doing this either since it is 
just a temp fix for  now and prob the next year maybe till I can get 
money to do it right and  replace all these old wires. the shack is in a 
temp spot. the real perm  spot for radio will have new wires already and 
all will be ok. wont need  the extra wires and i can go back to 2 wire 
for all I care in living room  after I get my shack room from son when he 
moves out 1 day. dang kids just  cant leave my house no jobs here for 
sure in small town we live in and  only 1 car between us even worse. city 
and jobs are 70 miles away wish I  was rich and get him apartment in city 
for work and it give me a place to  get away from xyl now and then and a 
good excuse to drive to city and  spend what money I dont have also. hihi

OH by ground rod is my 1 mast  and my 2nd mast is 10 feet away from that 
so I can ground them also to  same outside ground directly with heavier 
wire as I have some heavy stuff  in short lengths only.
I like the better protect my radios from static this  way I hope if 
nothing else and a better ground may just help my power line  noise also 
and that way the stupid power company can also not say its my  system 
thats wrong. not yet they havent but I expect it soon. everytime  they 
come out I try new things here and they come out and recheck the area  
and find new things each time. my noise levels on 20,30,40,80m are all  
s8 or better 90% of the time. they will find the problem 1 day and it  
probably same time I get ready to move out of this house and start over  

I appreciate any ideas suggestions do and donts even ok. I  prefer to see 
opinions from folks from the field then what I read online  or by asking 
electricians here.  they tell me I cant do it at all and  they have to 
pull permitys and reqire the house to fix the problems that  way. well 
they are correct for the most part but not totally needed yet  since 2 
wires works for 95% of what I use in the house. only radio and pc  main 
thing 3 wires i trying to fix up.
and with work slow in this town  everyone trying to generate work for 
there business's anyways and I  understand that totally also.

thanks for all your ideas in advanced and  I read this forum daily and 
have learned allot just reading and listening  to what you all say here. 
seems at least you all speak in laymens terms  that most folks can 
understand and will say things from real life  experiences.

Fred  Rugar


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