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Re: [TowerTalk] Power Distribution

Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Power Distribution
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <>
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:08:56 -0400
List-post: <">>

> I suppose I'm "the guy from Anaheim." have no household appliances that
> operate on 3-phase power. If I lived in Europe, I surely would! My
> friend in The Netherlands operates even his garage door opener motor on
> 3-phase power.
> But, I wish I did have 3-phase mains power available. Surely no one will
As do I as I also have a shop...Wife and friends call it my play house.
> challenge that induction motors are more efficient when operated on
> 3-phase power. In my case, I have a 5 HP, a 3 Hp and a 1 Hp motor on
> equipment in my home shop; all are 3-phase motors and I use solid state
> VFDs to both control their speed and to generate the 3-phase power from
> single phase 220 vac.
> Air conditioner Freon pumps use induction motors. If there were demand
> (supported by the power infrastructure, or perhaps the other way
> 'round), these air conditioning systems would be more efficient and have
> a higher SEER rating when operated on 3-phase power. With no
> infrastructure here, there is no demand for the improved design and I
> agree it is entirely possible that what 3-phase air conditioning systems
> there are will be for commercial use and may have a lower SEER rating.
> In time, those systems will have higher efficiency as regulatory demand
> forces it.
> There is huge demand enforced to use high-efficiency air conditioning
> systems. I have just replaced one (of two) 3-ton AC systems in my
> two-story home. I was offered a higher efficiency (that is, SEER rating
> or the new AHRI EER term that seems to have replaced SEER)
As they are derived a bit differently they are not quite 
interchangeable. With SEER being seasonal and EER being strictly the 
system efficency which as I believe you mentioned earlier that the 
system efficency changes with the seasons...IOW, inside Vs outside 
temperature and the actual set point.  EER does not take that into 
account and has to be derived for some specific set of conditions.  So 
overall SEER is more meaningful, and particularly so in a state like 
Michigan where the summers can be very hot at times with the delta T 
(and relative humidity) between inside and outside varying widely on a 
day to day basis.

SEER may be much more meaningful, but EER probably looks better to the 
customer and the sales department even if it doesn't tell the whole story.
> at higher
> purchase cost BUT with the assurance of receiving $2700 in rebates and
> credits for agreeing to purchase that higher efficiency system. "System"
> means the furnace (yes, I have two!), the evaporator coil, the Freon
> lines, the condensing unit and even the enhanced thermostat capable of
> controlling a multi-stage Freon pump and variable-speed fans. But, to my
> regret, all that operates on single-phase power.
> Some folks here seem opposed to 3-phase power just because they don't
> have it and see change, any change, as a bad thing. Having worked in
> industry, I've been around 3-phase power all my life and I don't see it
> as strange at all.
> I am astonished at some of the KWHr rates mentioned here. Even other
> cities nearby Anaheim in Southern California have KWHr rates that
> astonish me. I have a local friend in a nearby city, perhaps 12 miles
> away from my home in Anaheim, who pays up to $0.38 per KWHr in the
> summer when he is using air conditioning; in fact, that was two years
> ago when I compared rates and his rate today may be higher. But, here in
> Anaheim, my baseline rate is about $0.07 per KWHr and my one-and-only
> step above the baseline is to $0.12 or so per KWHr.
You mentioned the city buying into several nuke plants.  The Feds are 
going to be putting out 50 some Billion in incentives for new nuke 
construction and implementation. Now days there are small, efficient, 
portable nuke generators that can be sized and ganged to handle anything 
from residential areas to cities.  How the cost of the power from these 
compares to the rest of the national electrical infrastructure, I don't 
know. OTOH Nuke power is one of the most expensive due to the 
complexity, security, and "side effects" such as waste disposal and 
storage. Again these new, sealed plants are an unknown, but have the 
*potential* for being much less expensive than regular power from a nuke 

However you look at it there is a big push for *many* new nuclear power 
plants.  Of course paying for all of these great ideas is likely to fall 
to future generations.


Roger (K8RI)
> Larry W6FUB
> ...

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