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Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 97, Issue 66

To: "<>" <>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 97, Issue 66
From: "Dale M. Schwartz" <>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:57:31 +0000
List-post: <">>
AL: 1. On the zoning issue, I highly recommend getting a copy of the new ARRL 
book on ham antenna and zoning by the author below. Fred is no doubt the most 
knowledgable lawyer in the USA on this subject. Those of us lawyers who have 
been Volunteer Counsel to ARRL members for many years consider it the "Bible" 
on towers and zoning issues. The new/revised edition is due to hit the 
bookstands any
Minute now. I have an advance copy and it is fantastic! Google Fred, K1VR and 
you will see what I mean. His info is

Fred Hopengarten, Esq., K1VR 
Six Willarch Road<x-apple-data-detectors://10>
Lincoln, MA 01773<x-apple-data-detectors://10>

You can feel free to contact me and I will be glad to assist you on behalf of 
the League at no charge for preliminary advice.
  2.  As far as the StepIR is concerned, I don't disagree that the fixed 4 el 
beam will give a smidgen of gain over the StepIR 3el beam ON THE RESONANT 
FREQUENCY of the aluminum beam; but move 50 or 100 kc or more up or down the 
band, and the StepIR will usually outperform it. I have read articles about 
antenna test range "shootouts" that confirm this. I have had a 3 el StepIR with 
30/40 trombone for 6 months now and have not failed to work every DXpedition 
that has come up in pile-ups (most on the time on the first or second 
call--even when the DX station was was very weak stateside. I LOVE this SteppIR 
antenna. It is the best I have used in 55 years of hamming. The front-to-back 
and front-to-side ratios are amazing.

          DALE.  K4ROZ

  1. A couple of tower questions (Al Kozakiewicz)
  2. Re: A couple of tower questions (Grant Saviers)
  3. 12, 17 24 mhz ants (<>)
  4.  40m yagi over Steppir 
  5. Re: 40m yagi over Steppir (Ken Kinyon)


Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:10:24 -0500
From: Al Kozakiewicz <<>>
Subject: [TowerTalk] A couple of tower questions
To: 'TowerTalk' <<>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've spent some time going through the archives, but most of my searches tend 
to return 4 figures of results.  If anyone could help me narrow that down, it 
would be appreciated.

I'm preparing an application for a zoning variance to erect a tower at the 
house we'll be moving to later this year.  It's in a rural, very small town in 
the Adirondack mountains of NY.  There are no other hams with towers in the 
town.  Things might get "interesting" as in addition to the town zoning board 
there is a regional agency (the Adirondack Park Agency) that acts as a land use 
overlord for the park.  In theory, their jurisdiction does not extend to 
"residential radio and television" antennas, but details like jurisdiction are 
mere curiousities to a New York bureaucrat.

I want to be as big a gun as possible with a roughly 75' self supporting tower 
on 20 meters and up.  Bands of greatest interest are 20, 17 and 15.

My questions, as brief as possible:

1.  I've "budgeted" 15 sf of antenna wind load. The tower would be cranked down 
when not in use.  For setback reasons, the boom can't be longer than 40' to 
avoid overhanging the neighboring property.  I might also put 2m and 6m 
antennas on the mast, but I'm not a major VHF operator.  I don't need specific 
recommendations yet, I just need to know if that is a reasonable budget for the 
antennas?  For obvious reasons, I don't want to get a variance for a tower that 
won't safely support what I want to put on it.

2.  I've been thinking in terms of a US Tower TX-472 or HDX-572 with the 
motorized crank up/down.  The HDX might be stretching the budget.  Are there 
others I should look at?

3.  On the foundation plan for the US tower TX-472, the parts list shows you 
need 10 #3 bars as ties, yet it looks like you need about 10x that amount from 
the drawing.  What am I missing here?

Many thanks,



Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:34:36 -0800
From: Grant Saviers <<>>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] A couple of tower questions
To: Al Kozakiewicz <<>>, 
Message-ID: <<">>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


I'm a regular annual traveler to Long Lake for 30+ years, a friend has a
camp there and I have been "chief engineer" for many projects, however
not a tower.

I'm wondering if you need to back up a bit as a "zoning variance" is
usually a big deal, neighbors get to vote, public hearings, etc.  Have
you discussed the process with a land use attorney in the area and maybe
a civil engineer?  PRB-1 prevents "zoning out" amateur towers, so you
might also talk to ARRL HQ for advice and see if they know a local
attorney familiar with the issues.  I had to apply for a "use permit"
for a tower in MA, which was much simpler than a "variance."
Frequently, the town authorities will backtrack in the face of armed
(legally so) and informed citizens as they certainly don't have money
for legal battles which they will almost certainly lose.  You mention
you are in the Adirondack preserve/park,  I know my friend has had the
same issues, but successfully navigated them all.  Local
engineering/contractor/legal/architect advice is essential.

One thing that worked in some MA towns was a education campaign re
PRB-1, selling the benefits of ham radio, etc and getting a couple of
the town selectmen or whatever they are called in your town to sponsor
permissive legislation for amateur radio towers.  You might look around
to see if other nearby communities have done so.  What we did in MA was
set a template that got automatic approval for up to 80' towers, and
this was adopted by several towns.  Much of the current municipal tower
paranoia is driven by cell tower proliferation and you want to distance
yourself as much as possible from that.  Read the codes carefully to
make sure they really apply to you - "communications tower" is generally
NOT read as "amateur radio tower."  Here in King County, WA, my new QTH,
the codes specifically exempt amateur radio from the VERY long list of
restrictions/to do's on cell stuff.  Try to find a helpful person in
your planning and building dept's.  Be careful as I've seen them play
power/agenda BS games with those not informed about the codes.  Outright
lies/misinformation.  Your gumment at work!

Ok, so much for some of the hassles.  I'm putting up two HDX589's.  If
you are forced to get every t crossed and i dotted for permits, you then
need to know your local area wind load code.  This is available by
county.  Then you can call UST (call and ask for Vicky) and get from
them the design calcs document for your tower which will also show
details of the foundation design.  Don't count on anything in the
catalogs!  Then you will almost certainly need a PE with a NY license to
"wet stamp"/sign off the UST design docs or replace it with one of his
own.  Finding such an engineer can be a BIG problem since they are
liability paranoid.  Then the building dep't will review and might
require soil testing, concrete slump and cylinder tests.  $$$  ps - I
bought via Texas Towers, saved a few bucks over HRO.  The shipping will
not be cheap to upstate NY since they are FOB UST in So. Cal.  Try hard
to find a good used tower on Craig's list or ebay or<> or<>!

Re antennas to consider, there are a few tribanders of note.  Nothing
will need a 40' boom.  Get a copy of the tribander evaluation report by
Steve K7LXC,<>  Not much has changed 
except for the
SteppIR line appearing on the scene.  I decided on the C31XR for
10/15/20 and a WARC 2/2 and M2  6m and 2m.  That exceeds 15 ft^2 by a
little, which b.t.w. is a good budget number.  I have a CushCraft A4S at
another QTH, it plays fine although there is recent grumbling about MFJ
inferior parts.  Who knows?  At my MA two successive QTHs my two
different TH7DX played fine through several hurricanes, but again what
has MFJ done now that they own them?  M2, Force12, Bencher, and the
Europeans aren't MFJ companies for what that is worth.  I avoided
SteppIR for three reasons - strength, reliability and less gain/FB on 15
and 10.  (the C31XR has 3L/20, 4L/15 and 7L/10 on a good sized boom).

For a 75' tower the HDX and 15 sq ft would be the best choice with the
motorized up/down.  But, you can adapt a VS drill to drive the manual
winch.  For $200 you can get a top line (Milwaukee) 1/2" VS + hi/lo +
reversible drill and square drive socket adapter from McMaster.  UST
seems to be ham friendly and reasonably well run as a company and the
products do what they say they will do plus some, especially if you
crank them down a bit.  Your inspector probably won't show up after the
concrete is poured & backfilled.  Knowing your terrain a bit, good luck
with the Adirondack granite!  We needed to hire a blaster for one Long
Lake Camp project.

Good luck to you and to me as I don't have my permits yet!  Or, put your
tower up and ask/pay for forgiveness, but follow/document/photograph
implementation to the manufacturers specs/design.

Grant KZ1W


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:28:07 EST
From: <><>
Subject: [TowerTalk] 12, 17 24 mhz ants
To: <><>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Looking for plans for a 3 el Yagi for 30 meters, a 3,4 or 5 el  Yagi for 17
and a 4,5 or 6 el for 12.  Any help?



Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:41:55 +0000
From: <><>
Subject: [TowerTalk]  40m yagi over Steppir
To: <><>

Content-Type: text/plain

I am sure this has come up quite a bit.  I want to assess the possibility of 
placing 2 ele 40m beam above a Steppir 3 ele.  The twist is that the Steppir 
has the 40m dipole add on.  Was thinking of placing 40m beam perpendicular to 
it.  What are ur thoughts?  Really would like some gain on 40.  Thanks.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:42:33 -0700
From: "Ken Kinyon" <<>>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 40m yagi over Steppir
To: <<>>,   
Message-ID: <033401cbbcc8$0336df80$09a49e80$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

I had a 40-2 CD about 13 feet above my SteppIR 3 ele, until they came out
with the 30/40 add on.  I put the add-on on the SteppIR and put the Steppir
where the 40-2CD was.  Subjectively, I saw no real difference in performance
on 40m.  I seemed to get out about the same before and after.  I was very
happy to have the 30 meter antenna. Keep in mind, I have never considered
F/B ratio as all that important to my operating.

You may want to post this on the SteppIR reflector as well.


Ken W7TS

From: <><>
[] On Behalf Of<>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:42
To: <><>
Subject: [TowerTalk] 40m yagi over Steppir

I am sure this has come up quite a bit.  I want to assess the possibility of
placing 2 ele 40m beam above a Steppir 3 ele.  The twist is that the Steppir
has the 40m dipole add on.  Was thinking of placing 40m beam perpendicular
to it.  What are ur thoughts?  Really would like some gain on 40.  Thanks.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


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