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Re: [TowerTalk] Force12 rivets

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Force12 rivets
From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:45:26 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Repost

On 2/24/2011 11:48 AM, GEORGE BETHEA wrote:
> My 620/340 Magnum survived Katrina... 180 mph winds... downdrafts did 
> snap the elements (all three 40 meter elements on one side of the 
> antenna)... as they were working against the linear loading cables. 
> None of the element rivets ever loosened. The largest diameter 40 
> meter element tubes that extend from the boom... sheared off 4 inches 
> outside of where the first rivet joint connected it to the second 
> largest diameter element piece. The aluminum tubing shown signs of 
> stretching (like an aluminum can bent back and forth) and that is what 
> caused the failure of the tubing. It was never designed for the 
> pressures of Katrina and these downbursts. The elements were almost 
> pointing to the ground at times and then they would violently whip 
> back into place.
> All of the rivets on the boom to element brackets were loose... only 
> the 1/4x20 bolts were holding the element brackets firmly to the boom. 
> I have added two additional 1/4x20 316 stainless bolts to those 
> brackets... replacing 4 of the existing rivets (two on each side of 
> the bracket). I also have a C49XR (120MPH version) and I followed the 
> same procedure on it and without a single rivet failure. Its element 
> brackets are welded in place and bolted.
> I also use Phillystran for my boom trusses as 10 years in the 
> Mississippi air totally rotted the F12 cables to the point of 
> failure. An N1217D has needed no such treatment and I had a C31XR up 
> for about 7 years and none of this extra engineering was needed on it.
> Anyway, there is no way that an antenna can be stressed any more than 
> my 620/340 was stressed during Katrina. I watched from my front porch 
> as it was hammered for 12 hours... and if the element rivets held 
> during that test... rest assured that I will continue with my tried 
> and true modification. YMMV but it works for me... and I do love my 
> F12 antennas!
> 73,
> George K5JZ
>
> --- On *Thu, 2/24/11, K8RI on TT /<k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>
>     Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Force12 rivets
>     To: towertalk@contesting.com
>     Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 9:27 AM
>
>     On 2/24/2011 8:30 AM, Gary E. Jones wrote:
>     > I have a bunch of Force 12 antennas up in the air, all without
>     any problems
>     > for years. However, that is probably because a good friend of
>     mine bought a
>     > bunch before me, and rather quickly had one of the sections of
>     element tips
>     > simply drop to the ground. The preferred method of construction
>     was to have
>     > three rivets, all on positioned on the bottom of the element and
>     on only one
>     > side of the element. There was enough "play" in the telescoping
>     elements
>     > that the rivets would simply gradually be worked by the play
>     until the
>     > rivets dropped to the ground and the element sections worked out
>     of their
>     > telescoping tubing and drop to the ground also.
>     >
>     > MY friend (K5JZ) spent a lot of time talking with Force-12 and
>     they came up
>     > with the process of using 6 rivets per junction, three on one
>     side of the
>     > tubing and opposed by three on the other side of the tubing so
>     they were 180
>     > degrees apart. Placing them on opposing sides removed all the
>     very small
>     > "wiggle" of the elements and held them firmly in position.
>     I "would think" that two or 3 sets at 120 degrees staggered with a 60
>     degree offset would give the most secure connection.
>
>     BTW I mentioned way earlier in this thread that my force 12's didn't
>     have blind rivets, but I discovered the two packages of *spare*
>     rivets
>     from force 12 ARE blind rivets.  Not sure why those in it aren't.
>
>     OTOH I really don't see as if it'd make much difference. If properly
>     seated either type should seal and if not neither type would seal
>     properly.
>
>     I don't like the idea of rivets on line 180 degrees apart. It makes a
>     good secure connection, but at the expense of the element strength
>     along
>     one axis which is admittedly in a low stress area so it probably
>     makes
>     no difference. OTOH it would be a good idea to avoid the practice in
>     higher stress (or loaded) areas.
>
>     73
>
>     Roger (K8RI)
>
>
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