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Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height

 Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height Michael Goins Thu, 1 Dec 2011 12:46:06 -0600 mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
 ```Getting things together here to get the antenna/rotor, switchbox up on the tower and plan for the half square for the lower bands. I've had this in a file and wanted to share it. Good information about takeoff angles and height above ground: http://radio.n0gw.net/radio12.pdf Mike, k5wmg On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Gene Fuller wrote: > Optimum height for a tower is a classic case of "it all depends". What are > your interests?, What's the geography like at your QTH?, Are there > obstructions?,  Are there zoning restrictions? , What's the budget?,  Will > maintenance be a consideration? etc. If  you're a dx'er  - what bands? > Although, for horizontal polarization, radiation angle is a function of > height in wavelengths, optimum radiation angle is also a function of > frequency, path, band conditions,  even  receive antenna height, etc.. When > all of the factors are put on the scales, 70 feet very often turns out to be > a good balance point, but higher and lower certainly can be optimum for > particular interests. There's no "silver bullet". > Gene / W2LU > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" > To: "Drax Felton" ; "[TowerTalk]" > > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:08 PM > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height > > >> >> > Isn't the a half wave high tower the general rule of thumb for a >> > decent dx angle? >> >> No, 1/2 wave is where a horizontally polarized antenna shows its >> first null directly overhead. >> >> > After 60ft (1/2 wave on 20m) >> >> 60 ft is 0.86 wave on 20 meters (14 MHz) - one wavelength is 70 feet. >> >> If I had to choose a single tower height *over flat ground* it would be >> 70 feet.  That represents 1/2 wave on 40 meters - a point that a dipole >> or two element Yagi has some decent (but not world beating) performance >> - and a useful height for an 80 meter inverted V or a place to hang >> inverted L antennas for 160 and 80.  In addition, 70 feet in 1 1/5 wave >> on 15 meters (perhaps the most useful overall height for DX) and 2 >> waves on 10 (high but not too high except for short skip). >> >> > After 60ft (1/2 wave on 20m) you need more guys with Rohn  25 >> >> Two levels of guying is acceptable with Rohn 25 up to 70 feet.  Rohn 45 >> will go to 90 feet with two levels of guying. >> >> 73, >> >>    ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> On 12/1/2011 11:53 AM, Drax Felton wrote: >>> Isn't the a half wave high tower the general rule of thumb for a decent >>> dx angle? >>> >>> After 60ft (1/2 wave on 20m) you need more guys with Rohn  25 and the >>> work difficulty starts increasing rapidly. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:31 AM, towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote: >>> >>>> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to >>>>     towertalk@contesting.com >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>     http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>     towertalk-request@contesting.com >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>     towertalk-owner@contesting.com >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>>    1. Determine cost-effective tower height (Andreas Hofmann) >>>>    2. Re: Determine cost-effective tower height (Jim Lux) >>>>    3. Re: Determine cost-effective tower height (Dick Dievendorff) >>>>    4. Re: Determine cost-effective tower height (Gene Fuller) >>>>    5. Re: Determine cost-effective tower height (Dick Dievendorff) >>>>    6. FW:  Determine cost-effective tower height (km5vi) >>>>    7. Re: Determine cost-effective tower height (Jim Lux) >>>>    8. top loaded vertical radial length (LY2KZ) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 00:47:46 +0000 >>>> From: Andreas Hofmann >>>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> To: "towertalk@contesting.com" >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I have decided I need a tower to get better antennas up in the air. >>>> Thinking about the SteppIR DB 18, 40m 2 el, 20 and up 3el.  Now, my >>>> property slopes pretty much in every direction by 5 degrees.  I need to >>>> determine a proper tower height without breaking the bank. >>>> >>>> I was told I should run a computer program to figure a good height of >>>> the yagi for my most important directions/DX locations.  In fact a >>>> friend of mine did the same (on a similarly sloping property) and he >>>> found out that a 55 foot tower would be similar to a 120 foot tower on a >>>> flat ground.   Hence he put up a 55 foot crank up mast and it is >>>> rocking.  He forgot the program he used. >>>> >>>> So, what tool can I use to find the optimal (not maximal) height of a >>>> tower that would work well here? >>>> Also, the tower would be setting on the side of the house with a metal >>>> roof (roof about 15 feet high), not sure if this would matter... >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Andreas >>>> KU7T >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:59:54 -0800 >>>> From: Jim Lux >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> To: towertalk@contesting.com >>>> Message-ID:<4ED6D18A.10405@earthlink.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> On 11/30/11 4:47 PM, Andreas Hofmann wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I have decided I need a tower to get better antennas up in the air. >>>>> Thinking about the SteppIR DB 18, 40m 2 el, 20 and up 3el.  Now, my >>>>> property slopes pretty much in every direction by 5 degrees.  I need to >>>>> determine a proper tower height without breaking the bank. >>>>> >>>>> I was told I should run a computer program to figure a good height of >>>>> the yagi for my most important directions/DX locations.  In fact a >>>>> friend of mine did the same (on a similarly sloping property) and he >>>>> found out that a 55 foot tower would be similar to a 120 foot tower on >>>>> a flat ground.   Hence he put up a 55 foot crank up mast and it is >>>>> rocking.  He forgot the program he used. >>>>> >>>>> So, what tool can I use to find the optimal (not maximal) height of a >>>>> tower that would work well here? >>>>> Also, the tower would be setting on the side of the house with a metal >>>>> roof (roof about 15 feet high), not sure if this would matter... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Andreas >>>>> KU7T >>>>> >>>> >>>> HFTA by Ward Silver which comes with the ARRL Antenna Book is what you >>>> want.  You enter in the surrounding terrain (or extract it from DEM >>>> files, etc.) and it calculates the pattern. >>>> >>>> Only works for horizontally polarized antennas, by the way. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:25:50 -0800 >>>> From: "Dick Dievendorff" >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> To: "'Jim Lux'", >>>> Message-ID:<001b01ccafc8\$29967cf0\$7cc376d0\$@comcast.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="US-ASCII" >>>> >>>> I think HFTA is by Dean Straw, N6BV.  In any case, it's the program you >>>> want >>>> for this.  Ward edited the new Antenna Book, and included Dean's >>>> programs. >>>> >>>> Dick, K6KR >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com >>>> [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:00 PM >>>> To: towertalk@contesting.com >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> >>>> On 11/30/11 4:47 PM, Andreas Hofmann wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I have decided I need a tower to get better antennas up in the air. >>>> Thinking about the SteppIR DB 18, 40m 2 el, 20 and up 3el.  Now, my >>>> property >>>> slopes pretty much in every direction by 5 degrees.  I need to determine >>>> a >>>> proper tower height without breaking the bank. >>>>> >>>>> I was told I should run a computer program to figure a good height of >>>>> the >>>> yagi for my most important directions/DX locations.  In fact a friend of >>>> mine did the same (on a similarly sloping property) and he found out >>>> that a >>>> 55 foot tower would be similar to a 120 foot tower on a flat ground. >>>> Hence >>>> he put up a 55 foot crank up mast and it is rocking.  He forgot the >>>> program >>>> he used. >>>>> >>>>> So, what tool can I use to find the optimal (not maximal) height of a >>>> tower that would work well here? >>>>> Also, the tower would be setting on the side of the house with a metal >>>> roof (roof about 15 feet high), not sure if this would matter... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Andreas >>>>> KU7T >>>>> >>>> >>>> HFTA by Ward Silver which comes with the ARRL Antenna Book is what you >>>> want. >>>> You enter in the surrounding terrain (or extract it from DEM files, >>>> etc.) >>>> and it calculates the pattern. >>>> >>>> Only works for horizontally polarized antennas, by the way. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TowerTalk mailing list >>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:09:30 -0500 >>>> From: "Gene Fuller" >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> To: "Dick Dievendorff",    "'Jim Lux'" >>>>     , >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>>     reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Agreed, HFTA is the way to go. ARRL  Antenna Handbook  ed 21 includes >>>> the >>>> software and instrustrutions you will need. A little hand held GPS will >>>> give >>>> you your tower location, and a fair bit of determination for the novice, >>>> will give you a great picture of what you have to work with. >>>> Gene / W2LU >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dick Dievendorff" >>>> To: "'Jim Lux'"; >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think HFTA is by Dean Straw, N6BV.  In any case, it's the program you >>>>> want >>>>> for this.  Ward edited the new Antenna Book, and included Dean's >>>>> programs. >>>>> >>>>> Dick, K6KR >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com >>>>> [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:00 PM >>>>> To: towertalk@contesting.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>>> >>>>> On 11/30/11 4:47 PM, Andreas Hofmann wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have decided I need a tower to get better antennas up in the air. >>>>> Thinking about the SteppIR DB 18, 40m 2 el, 20 and up 3el.  Now, my >>>>> property >>>>> slopes pretty much in every direction by 5 degrees.  I need to >>>>> determine a >>>>> proper tower height without breaking the bank. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was told I should run a computer program to figure a good height of >>>>>> the >>>>> yagi for my most important directions/DX locations.  In fact a friend >>>>> of >>>>> mine did the same (on a similarly sloping property) and he found out >>>>> that >>>>> a >>>>> 55 foot tower would be similar to a 120 foot tower on a flat ground. >>>>> Hence >>>>> he put up a 55 foot crank up mast and it is rocking.  He forgot the >>>>> program >>>>> he used. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, what tool can I use to find the optimal (not maximal) height of a >>>>> tower that would work well here? >>>>>> Also, the tower would be setting on the side of the house with a metal >>>>> roof (roof about 15 feet high), not sure if this would matter... >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Andreas >>>>>> KU7T >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> HFTA by Ward Silver which comes with the ARRL Antenna Book is what you >>>>> want. >>>>> You enter in the surrounding terrain (or extract it from DEM files, >>>>> etc.) >>>>> and it calculates the pattern. >>>>> >>>>> Only works for horizontally polarized antennas, by the way. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TowerTalk mailing list >>>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com >>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TowerTalk mailing list >>>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com >>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:19:50 -0800 >>>> From: "Dick Dievendorff" >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> To: "'Gene Fuller'",    "'Jim Lux'" >>>>     , >>>> Message-ID:<001801ccafcf\$b4a4c4d0\$1dee4e70\$@comcast.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Google Earth is another (free) tool that you can use to determine the >>>> latitude and longitude of your specific antenna location. >>>> >>>> Dick >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Gene Fuller [mailto:w2lu@rochester.rr.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:10 PM >>>> To: Dick Dievendorff; 'Jim Lux'; towertalk@contesting.com >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> >>>> Agreed, HFTA is the way to go. ARRL  Antenna Handbook  ed 21 includes >>>> the >>>> software and instrustrutions you will need. A little hand held GPS will >>>> give >>>> you your tower location, and a fair bit of determination for the novice, >>>> will give you a great picture of what you have to work with. >>>> Gene / W2LU >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dick Dievendorff" >>>> To: "'Jim Lux'"; >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think HFTA is by Dean Straw, N6BV.  In any case, it's the program you >>>>> want >>>>> for this.  Ward edited the new Antenna Book, and included Dean's >>>>> programs. >>>>> >>>>> Dick, K6KR >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com >>>>> [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:00 PM >>>>> To: towertalk@contesting.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Determine cost-effective tower height >>>>> >>>>> On 11/30/11 4:47 PM, Andreas Hofmann wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have decided I need a tower to get better antennas up in the air. >>>>> Thinking about the SteppIR DB 18, 40m 2 el, 20 and up 3el.  Now, my >>>>> property >>>>> slopes pretty much in every direction by 5 degrees.  I need to >>>>> determine a >>>>> proper tower height without breaking the bank. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was told I should run a computer program to figure a good height of >>>>>> the >>>>> yagi for my most important directions/DX locations.  In fact a friend >>>>> of >>>>> mine did the same (on a similarly sloping property) and he found out >>>>> that >>>>> a >>>>> 55 foot tower would be similar to a 120 foot tower on a flat ground. >>>>> Hence >>>>> he put up a 55 foot crank up mast and it is rocking.  He forgot the >>>>> program >>>>> he used. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, what tool can I use to find the optimal (not maximal) height of a >>>>> tower that would work well here? >>>>>> Also, the tower would be setting on the side of the house with a metal >>>>> roof (roof about 15 feet high), not sure if this would matter... >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Andreas >>>>>> KU7T >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> HFTA by Ward Silver which comes with the ARRL Antenna Book is what you >>>>> want. >>>>> You enter in the surrounding terrain (or extract it from DEM files, >>>>> etc.) >>>>> and it calculates the pattern. >>>>> >>>>> Only works for horizontally polarized antennas, by the way. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TowerTalk mailing list >>>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com >>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___________ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TowerTalk mailing list >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TowerTalk mailing list >> TowerTalk@contesting.com >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TowerTalk mailing list > TowerTalk@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ TowerTalk mailing list TowerTalk@contesting.com http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk ```
 Current Thread [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Drax Felton Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Michael Goins Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Joe Subich, W4TV Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Gene Fuller Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Michael Goins <= Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Andreas Hofmann Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Steve Hunt Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, David Gilbert Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, ve4xt Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, David Gilbert Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, W0MU Mike Fatchett Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Dick Dievendorff Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Andreas Hofmann Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, larryjspammenot@teleport.com Re: [TowerTalk] Cost effectivel Tower height, Frederick Vobbe