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Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 113, Issue 55

Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 113, Issue 55
From: W8AEF <>
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 22:12:53 -0700
List-post: <">>
The multiplier used to be 300%.  If a man makes $15 per hour, his time 
is/was charged out at $45 per hour.  And that was a long time ago.

de Paul, W8AEF


On 5/28/2012 9:23 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
> On 5/28/12 6:18 PM, Ro Grrr wrote:
>> Jim Brown
>> I think I previously had mentioned something about the PRIME quoting $100 an 
>> hour, then passing on to the SUB/Tier 1 a rate of $50 per hour, who passes 
>> on $25  per hour, who passes on ONLY $25 per hour for the actual work.
>> The main contractor and tier 1 Sub DO NOT DO any work. They only push paper 
>> and get paid political "confiscatory" amounts of PROFIT, while the WORKERS 
>> bust their butts. Some of them get killed too.
>> Do any of those upstream care ?
>> I doubt it.
>> It's those workers who have tokeep their hands on the tower to save their 
>> lives.
>> I don't know that profit is confiscatory at any point in the chain.. the
> problem is the number of steps in the chain.. Each step costs a minimum
> of 20-25%.  Rack up 3 steps, and you're looking at 1.2^3 = 1.7 times
> multiplier.
> And each of those steps really can't do it for less than a 20%-25%
> adder.. Gotta have an office, gotta have staff, gotta make a profit
> (maybe 10%).  Only if you're huge can you get the percentage down from
> economies of scale.
> Rarely, rarely does any one step make more than around 10% profit,
> because you get higher than that, and somebody steps in to undercut you.
>    Less than that is not enough to deal with the risk, and the slow pay,
> and all the other BS you deal with as a business owner. YOu might as
> well put your money in a mutual fund or something.
> Here's a typical breakdown..
> $20/hour to worker
> various and sundry costs to employer is 15-20%  (FICA, Unemployment, etc.)
> Paid holidays (10/yr) = 4%
> Assume no vacation or sick days or health insurance  (2wks/yr of
> vacation and sick leave is another 4%)
> workers's comp is about $4/hr  (looked it up in some tables.. maybe only
> $3.50/hr, but construction at height is expensive.. but not like mining
> at $6/hr)
> Cost for supplies, office, etc. another 25%
> so we're up to 50%
> about 30-35/hr
> Profit 10%
> General and Administrative (i.e. management) 10%
> now we're up to $36-37/hr
> After that, each layer adds about 20-25%
> Work your guys harder and rack up some OT at 1.5 x, you don't incur more
> costs for vacations, and you only accumulate more workers' comp at
> straight rate.
> Pay your tower guys $10/hr (which is pathetically low, by the way).. the
> fixed costs (worker's comp, etc.) eat you alive... WC is going to be
> half the wages cost, unless you hire your guys as independent
> contractors on a 1099. (which is very much skating the edges of the law)
> Maybe you pay piece work or "by the job" and make them go get the gear
> with a 8 hour (uncompensated) drive (like in the show).
> Myself.. when I'm hiring construction workers, I want no more than one
> tier between me and the toiler (i.e. I'll pay a general, and he'll pay a
> sub, who will pay the worker)  I ask how much they're paying the
> workers.. basic, no risk stuff, I'm expecting to spend $20-25/hr.
> Cheaper than that and I know I'm getting rookies picked up at the
> corner, so there better be a good foreman.  that is, I don't expect
> ditch diggers or concrete breakers to be paid $20/hr, but I sure as heck
> expect the guy or gal supervising to be getting $25.
> Something with skills? Or Danger? I'm expecting to pay more.  Heck, the
> guy who fixes my car is getting something like $80-90/hr to the shop,
> and the mechanic is probably getting $40-50/hr of that.
> On an assembly line, where you have one task and one task only.. yep,
> you're down in the $10/hr range.. but I can't imagine that tower work
> fits in that category.
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