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Re: [TowerTalk] Analysis of mast slippage in rotor

To: johnb3030@comcast.net,TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Analysis of mast slippage in rotor
From: <n0tt1@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 03:39:54 +0000
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
I don't know if your rotator has the hole for
a "pin" or not.  Can you pin the mast to the rotator?  
On my rotator, a Tailtwister, I use, IIRC, a 5/16 SS
bolt through the mast and through the rotator "V".  
I also have a ~5 second brake delay built into the 
control box to avoid any sudden stops.

On the SS U-bolts, I use spring-type lockwashers with
the SS nuts.  I tighten them 'till it "feels right"....not too
loose and not too tight.  Works for me.

73,
Charlie, N0TT


On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 19:00:36 -0500 John Becker <johnb3030@comcast.net>
writes:
> My mast has slipped about 30 degrees in the rotor after over four 
> years 
> with no slippage. Prior to noticing this I wasn't aware of any 
> recent 
> windy days. Before taking corrective action, I'm thinking about why 
> this 
> has happened now and how to most likely prevent a future 
> occurrence.
> 
> The rotor is a HAM-III in a Rohn 25 top section with a Rohn TB-3 
> thrust 
> bearing. The antenna is a KT34-XA mounted two feet above the thrust 
> 
> bearing. This antenna has been up since 1981 and mast slippage has 
> occurred previously a few times but only when there has been 
> unusually 
> high wind.
> 
> One of the first things I found is that these rotors apparently use 
> 
> non-standard size U-bolts. They are 1/4-20 stainless steel with a 
> 2.25" 
> inside dimension. The only source I found for replacements is 
> Hy-Gain, 
> now a division of MFJ. I wonder if they are making their own 
> U-bolts? I 
> was unable to find anyone else selling 2.25" ID U-bolts smaller than 
> 
> 5/16-18.
> 
> I looked for the correct torque spec for bolt tightening. For 1/4-20 
> 
> stainless, the Standard Dry Torque spec is 75 inch-pounds or 6.25 
> foot-pounds. This is for a bolted joint and I wonder if it also 
> applies 
> to a U-bolt? I did some testing with a spare rotor, a short piece of 
> 
> mast and a torque wrench. I lubricated the threads to prevent thread 
> 
> galling.
> 
> 75 inch-pounds is not very tight, definitely less than I would have 
> 
> tightened them if just going by what feels reasonable to me. I 
> gradually 
> increased the torque to 200 inch-pounds, which is the upper limit of 
> my 
> smaller torque wrench. I was expecting the U-bolt to fail at less 
> than 
> 200 inch-pounds but it did not. I left it at 200 inch-pounds for 
> several 
> days to see if there would be a delayed failure but it held. 
> However, 
> 200 inch-pounds feels too tight to me for a 1/4" bolt.
> 
> Due to the design of the HAM series rotors, the rotor casting 
> contacts 
> only the center 1.5" of the 2.25" ID U-bolt. This permits 
> progressive 
> tightening of the U-bolt to cause the shape of the U-bolt to 
> distort, 
> going from a "U" shape to a rounded "V" shape. It was necessary to 
> tighten the nuts on both sides of the U-bolt by roughly 1/8" to 
> increase 
> the torque from 75 inch-pounds to 200 inch-pounds.
> 
> I'm wondering if this distortion of the U-bolt also occurs slowly 
> over 
> time, resulting in a gradual loosening of the U-bolt? This could 
> explain 
> why mast slippage becomes a problem as time progresses.
> 
> Another possibility that comes to mind is that the normal stresses 
> that 
> occur each time the rotor starts and stops might gradually cause the 
> 
> nuts to loosen in the absence of rust to hold them in place. I plan 
> to 
> add stainless steel nylon insert lock nuts on top of the standard 
> nuts 
> on the U-bolts to prevent this.
> 
> The U-bolt that had been tightened to 200 inch-pounds was distorted 
> to 
> the point that it was very difficult to get it out of the rotor 
> casting. 
> There were obvious bends in the threaded portion just below the 
> nuts. 
> This is another indication to me that 200 inch-pounds is too tight, 
> and 
> I would not have used this U-bolt on my rotor.
> 
> I decided to continue the experiment by straightening the test 
> U-bolt 
> and tightening it with a larger torque wrench until it failed. 
> However, 
> I didn't get to the point of using the larger wrench because as I 
> was 
> re-tightening it, this time it failed at between 150 and 175 
> inch-pounds. Undoubtedly the operation of straightening it weakened 
> it 
> further than it already was, and I don't have another spare U-bolt 
> to 
> sacrifice.
> 
> There have been discussions of mast slippage on this list in the 
> past, 
> but I don't recall anyone discussing the optimum U-bolt tightening 
> torque. Possibly I just missed seeing it.
> 
> Suggestions and discussion about how to alleviate this problem would 
> be 
> appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> 73,
> 
> John, K9MM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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