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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type? (Mark n2qt)
2. 18MHz - Turning off ARCi Elect breakers (W4LDE)
3. Re: Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type? (Peter Voelpel)
4. Re: north (Don )
5. Re: north (charlie@thegallos.com)
6. Re: north (Wayne Kline)
7. Re: north (Don )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 14:24:56 -0500
From: Mark n2qt <n2qt.va@gmail.com>
To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type?
Message-ID: <17A2575B-AF4C-473B-98BC-3FEA7A107C8F@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I like the 1/4 inch Andrew superflex. You can solder on pl259s with a ug76
adapter. The
coax stays put when you bend it to fit. However as a solid shield it is not as
flexible as
a braided cable. (I also have a lot of short lengths of the superflex).
Mark. N2QT
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 17:04:15 +0000
From: "David Robbins" <k1ttt@arrl.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type?
Message-ID: <01ae01d0212d$faebd9b0$f0c38d10$@arrl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I use good rg-213 for all connections except Beverage or other RX antennas
that I use RG-6 for.
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Hallman - N7TR
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 15:35
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type?
Im re-cabling a 4 transmitter station and am looking for feedback on what
you are using for interconnect coax after your amplifiers? I'm using double
shielded RG8X for the low power connections to the low power bandpass
filters then to the amplifier inputs. Looking to see if good quality RG213
/ RG8 (95-98% shield) is ok past the amps to the high power 4O3A filters or
should I use something like LMR400 / BuryFlex for those connections to keep
down the potential inter-station interference?
Thanks...
Rich
Rich N7TR
ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV
http://www.qrz.com/db/N7TR
Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR .
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 14:02:48 -0500
From: W4LDE <w4lde@numail.org>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [TowerTalk] 18MHz - Turning off ARCi Elect breakers
Message-ID: <549DB0D8.3060302@numail.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
This may have been discussed before or I maybe asking the wrong
reflector, if so "Happy Holidays" and a Great New Year.
If your interested please read.
I had the privilege to operate as W1AW/4 a few days ago and operated 17
meters (18Mhz) o RTTY running anywhere
from 100 to 300 watts depending on band condx on three different days.
After the W1AW period was over I reviewed emails on our Home Owners
Email reflector and noticed
several new home owners were having breaker issues, tripping without any
apparent cause. They were tripping around
the same time as my 2 hour stints on the 17 meter band
I found a reference to this problem on the ARRL web site and yes it
looked like what was happening here.
The manufacturer admitted to the 18MHZ RF issue while on visit to the
ARRL Lab and stated back in Nov 2013 that a new version would be available.
The Lab did confirm in the article that they tested the newer version
and gave it a thumbs up "OK", however, the manuf' needed to resubmit for
UL approval.
The breakers in question are manuf' by Eaton's division of Cutler-Hammer
and are the new 2014 NEC code required ARC interrupt
style located in the distribution home panels.
Anyone else run into this problem and has the issue been solved and how?
I have also sent ARRL a request for more info. Until I can help resolve
this issue I'm off 17 meters.
73 de Ron W4LDE
---
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 20:50:44 +0100
From: "Peter Voelpel" <dj7ww@t-online.de>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type?
Message-ID: <7AF76797DDDB4BEC90A41D18DFC6A8B0@SHACK>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I use mostly RG-214 but also short length of RG142 or longer runs of
SCF12-50, always depending on my surplus sources what is available for free
or some beer.
73
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Hallman - N7TR
Sent: Freitag, 26. Dezember 2014 16:35
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Multi-Op Station Interconnect coax type?
Im re-cabling a 4 transmitter station and am looking for feedback on what
you are using for interconnect coax after your amplifiers? I'm using double
shielded RG8X for the low power connections to the low power bandpass
filters then to the amplifier inputs. Looking to see if good quality RG213
/ RG8 (95-98% shield) is ok past the amps to the high power 4O3A filters or
should I use something like LMR400 / BuryFlex for those connections to keep
down the potential inter-station interference?
Thanks...
Rich
Rich N7TR
ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV
http://www.qrz.com/db/N7TR
Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR DXCluster
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 12:17:52 -0800
From: "Don " <w7wll@arrl.net>
To: "Towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
Message-ID: <09719AA6C76A4B5C8EE38046979077AD@DonPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Wife suggested giving the compass to Goodwill and buying a dog. Smart alec.
Been there done that, retired the scooper.
Kidding aside, sometimes where we have the yagi pointed is important. A few
or more degrees from her to VU is not cause for alarm, but on 10 with more
elements, perhaps it is more important for working the close in low strength
new county in CO.
I've obviously missed earlier discussion on the owl. I see a few refs to N.
What am I missing?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Aycock
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 11:23 AM
To: Gary - AB9M ; towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
I think the best thing I learned from this cycle was the straight poop about
the Dog alignment method.
Bill--W4BSG
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary - AB9M
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 1:12 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
My response with the link to FM 6-50, was as I explained to one here who
contacted me directly, was done with tongue firmly planted in my cheek. I
know the process well, but use the generally North running road in front of
my house to get an approximate North for my rotor. I just wanted to see what
would happen if I turned the precision factor up by say a factor of ten.
Happy New Year everyone.... "now beaming over the North pole"
73 & DX,
Gary - AB9M
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary - AB9M
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 10:50 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
For greater precision, say about 0.33 degrees use the Polaris - Kochab
method as explained in US ARMY FM 6-50
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/6-50/Ch5.htm).
Many years ago, I used the Polaris - Kochab method for directional control,
first finding True North, then the Direction of Fire, to align Howitzers,
for the precision flying (in an arc) of thirty-five pound projectiles.
Once you get the telescope properly aligned by Polaris - Kochab, you only
have to lower it verticly to the ground. The line from the telescope to the
sighted spot on the ground is to True North.
73 & DX,
Gary - AB9M
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Greenlee
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 9:55 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
Ahh, what fun. Be careful shaving Phill as he gets razor rash easily.
I too am a bit into astrophotography and a little star gazing with or
without my ancient Celestron Pacific 8 inch reflector. I also dabbled
in using a sextant for navigating back in my sailing days. Was maritime
mobile for 9
years.
You can get local noon on dry land with a sextant and a bowl of water as
a horizontal reflecting plane. you can get a very precise local noon
and south. By taking a series of sights prior to, near, and after local
noon you can deduce the time and direction of local noon to an arbitrary
accuracy dependent on your observing conditions and skill taking the
sights. It is quite easy and you don't need published tables of data or
an expensive instrument. A cheap plastic sextant will git 'er done
better than you need for aiming antennas.
I personally favor a vertical rod driven in the ground and checked
carefully for verticallity. I put small pins in the ground where the
tip of the shadow is at any given time. The series of stakes mark a
smooth curve with equal periods of time indicated on either side by
equal distances and it easy to see the point where the shadow is
centered (also longest shadow.) This is true north from the vertical
rod (gnomon. The shadow cast by the gnomon has two shades of gray, the
umbra and penumbra. This finite width is NOT a problem, just use the
center of the shadow. The shadow width is a function of the rod width
and the fact that the sun is not a point source. In practice neither
matter much as it is easy to determined the center of the shadow cast by
the gnomon.
This thread inspires an experiment. I will use a non conductive
(plastic) dodad attached to the antenna directly above the mast and plot
its shadow position with small stakes starting before and running past
noon, as per clock time to ensure I start before and continue past local
noon far enough to give an interpretable curve. I can then easily find
the location of the shadow at local noon and drive a permanent stake.
Thereafter sighting through the center of the tower to that permanent
stake will give me a true north reference.
All caveats listed below are given due consideration.
No ground hogs will be inconvenienced by this endeavor.
Patrick NJ5G
On 12/25/2014 7:31 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 12/24/14 10:39 PM, Spencer wrote:
In the northern hemisphere, the shadow of a vertical object at solar
noon will point north.
I've done all these North finding techniques over the years as kind of a
hobby activity (and sometimes professionally, too)
In mid-latitudes the shadow and stick works fairly well, although it's
hard to get sub-degree precision (for your North facing owl?) because of
several reasons:
1) The stick has to be vertical to within the accuracy of your desired
measurement.
2) the sun is half a degree wide, so the shadow edges are indistinct
(you could check this in a few weeks, if you shave the groundhog first, so
the fur doesn't cause the indistinct edge)
3) the sun moves pretty fast, so it's hard to tell the exact instant of
solar noon. The earth turns a degree in 4 minutes. Of course, you don't
need a precisely aligned antenna to receive WWV, and, knowing your
longitude, you can calculate when solar noon is. (don't forget the
"equation of time")
4) the shadow is pretty short at noon unless you're well north (in the
summer).
At 34 degrees north, in the summer (prime tower building season), the
shadow is pretty short. The sun's only 10 degrees from vertical at the
solstice. At La Paz or Los Cabos, Baja California, on the solstice, the
sun is directly overhead at noon (or so close you won't be able to easily
tell the difference)
It's MUCH easier to get north if you mark the shadow periodically. You'll
get a curve that you can then use to determine north.
What you do is make a smooth curve of shadow position during the day.
Then, you take a string from the *top* of the stick and scribe a semi
circle across the curve of constant radius. Draw a line between the two
intersections of curve and semicircle. The perpendicular bisector of that
line faces north/south.
(you still have the 1/2 degree width of the sun to contend with, and the
ground has to be level within a fraction of a degree, etc.)
If you're "between the tropics" (of Cancer and Capricorn) the shadow goes
both north and south, depending on the time of year. Think of a stick on
the equator: from March equinox to September equinox, the sun goes north,
so the shadow is south, and from September to March, the sun goes south.
And for hams aligning their rotor in midwinter in the far north? No shadow
at all.
By the way, the north star (Polaris) is about 3/4 degree from true north.
It moves around the true pole in a circle. You can look up the position at
a given time/date, or watch it in a telescope and look for culmination.
Moral of the story: getting true "north" to even one degree accuracy is
harder than it seems at first glance.
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 15:32:44 -0500
From: charlie@thegallos.com
To: "Don" <w7wll@arrl.net>
Cc: Towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
Message-ID:
<fa90af078dcb89e6f639b80d63289194.squirrel@emailmg.ipower.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
...snip...
I've obviously missed earlier discussion on the owl. I see a few refs to
N.
What am I missing?
For those of us with a problem with birds perching on out antennas (what
is the max load of pigeons on a D-140? Anyone know?) it was suggested
that we put a plastic owl on our masts, but most have found it doesn't
work. Which lead to the discussion that the owl only works properly if it
points exactly towards true north. Hence needing a true north facing owl.
Of course, the way you do this is with a wench holding a wrench (folks
asking about a tower WINCH, but making the two most common typos)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:36:16 -0500
From: Wayne Kline <w3ea@hotmail.com>
To: "charlie@thegallos.com" <charlie@thegallos.com>, Don
<w7wll@arrl.net>
Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
Message-ID: <BAY177-W39D3DCB2B1FF5E169BA6BA8F520@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
WOW... I apologize to all TT'ers for kicking off this North finding
facts.
All the feedback are enlightening.
With that now fleshed out.. another problem is rising it's ugly head
A: The foul deterring OWL and it's installed position ?
B: The Hue/color od the reflective Eye's ?
I have opted for the deluxe http://www.gemplers.com/product/221414/Solar-powered-Owl-Rotating-Head
and I am reading the TT for insight in banding the control lines to the tower .
But at least the rotation head issue is no longer a concern :)
Wayne W3EA
...snip...
I've obviously missed earlier discussion on the owl. I see a few refs to
N.
What am I missing?
For those of us with a problem with birds perching on out antennas (what
is the max load of pigeons on a D-140? Anyone know?) it was suggested
that we put a plastic owl on our masts, but most have found it doesn't
work. Which lead to the discussion that the owl only works properly if it
points exactly towards true north. Hence needing a true north facing owl.
Of course, the way you do this is with a wench holding a wrench (folks
asking about a tower WINCH, but making the two most common typos)
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 13:55:58 -0800
From: "Don " <w7wll@arrl.net>
To: "Towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] north
Message-ID: <57BBD931CF9D4069B539135B1A31578F@DonPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Makes me think of the guys and gals with rotating towers, no rotators and
solidly fixed yagis. Wonder how accurate the ?pointing? is with these towere
compared to we with sloppy rotator gearing and other fixed or crankup tower
slop issues.
By the way, in spite of the sorta off topic N discussion, there were some
really good tidbits of information that I bet many of us found quite useful and
interesting. Thanks folks for sharing and the good humor too!
I do have one question. Does my (currently on sawhorses) Rohn FK-25A foldover
tower qualify under Towertalk or Crankup Towertalk? When I work on this next
summer I certainly want to be on the right reflector.
Don W7WLL
From: Wayne Kline
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 1:36 PM
To: charlie@thegallos.com ; Don
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] north
WOW... I apologize to all TT'ers for kicking off this North finding facts.
All the feedback are enlightening.
With that now fleshed out.. another problem is rising it's ugly head
A: The foul deterring OWL and it's installed position ?
B: The Hue/color od the reflective Eye's ?
I have opted for the deluxe http://www.gemplers.com/product/221414/Solar-powered-Owl-Rotating-Head
and I am reading the TT for insight in banding the control lines to the tower .
But at least the rotation head issue is no longer a concern :)
Wayne W3EA
...snip...
I've obviously missed earlier discussion on the owl. I see a few refs to
N.
What am I missing?
For those of us with a problem with birds perching on out antennas (what
is the max load of pigeons on a D-140? Anyone know?) it was suggested
that we put a plastic owl on our masts, but most have found it doesn't
work. Which lead to the discussion that the owl only works properly if it
points exactly towards true north. Hence needing a true north facing owl.
Of course, the way you do this is with a wench holding a wrench (folks
asking about a tower WINCH, but making the two most common typos)
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 144, Issue 59
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