I need U to come by the house with your truck to pick up the Mosley. . . I will
B working at the PD this coming when'd and the weekend of the fourth. I will
call U in the morning.
Jim
> On Jun 21, 2015, at 12:00 PM, towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote:
>
> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
> towertalk@contesting.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> towertalk-request@contesting.com
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. burying cable (William Hein)
> 2. Re: burying cable (john@kk9a.com)
> 3. Re: burying cable (Gary "Joe" Mayfield)
> 4. AN Tower (W7ZZ)
> 5. Re: AN Tower (Mickey Baker)
> 6. Re: burying cable (Roger (K8RI) on TT)
> 7. Re: burying cable (Roger (K8RI) on TT)
> 8. Re: AN tower (Patrick Greenlee)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:23:48 -0600
> From: William Hein <bill.aa7xt@gmail.com>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> Message-ID:
> <CAB-OGTz=Kj8kgzLXM9rv1EMdCHCFH4fFacuLTgPpAKyw1VuiLw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> As I sweat through digging (with a trencher and by hand) trenches putting
> Commscope AVA7-50 hardline (eBay deal) and control lines from the shack to
> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
> towertalk@contesting.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> towertalk-request@contesting.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> towertalk-owner@contesting.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. burying cable (William Hein)
> 2. Re: burying cable (john@kk9a.com)
> 3. Re: burying cable (Gary "Joe" Mayfield)
> 4. AN Tower (W7ZZ)
> 5. Re: AN Tower (Mickey Baker)
> 6. Re: burying cable (Roger (K8RI) on TT)
> 7. Re: burying cable (Roger (K8RI) on TT)
> 8. Re: AN tower (Patrick Greenlee)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:23:48 -0600
> From: William Hein <bill.aa7xt@gmail.com>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> Message-ID:
> <CAB-OGTz=Kj8kgzLXM9rv1EMdCHCFH4fFacuLTgPpAKyw1VuiLw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> As I sweat through digging (with a trencher and by hand) trenches putting
> Commscope AVA7-50 hardline (eBay deal) and control lines from the shack to
> a couple of towers here I mused on whether or not frost line has an
> application to burying coax cable and low voltage control lines.
>
> I get why one buries water pipes below the frost line as well as house
> foundations, by why radio cables? Is frost heave an issue for cables if one
> has some slack on either line of the line?
>
> 73
>
> Bill AA7XXT
> Glade Park CO
> DM59pa
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 22:56:05 -0400
> From: <john@kk9a.com>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Cc: aa7xt@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> Message-ID: <000001d0abcd$d1c83a30$7558ae90$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Perhaps in some conditions it can push the cables up. I had hundreds of
> feet of Heliax and 4"pvc buried a foot deep in Illinois with no issues.
> Deeper does have the advantage of making it less likely to accidently dig
> into later, but trenching four feet or so deep can be quite a project.
>
> John KK9A
>
>
>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> From: William Hein <bill.aa7xt@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:23:48 -0600
> List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
> As I sweat through digging (with a trencher and by hand) trenches putting
> Commscope AVA7-50 hardline (eBay deal) and control lines from the shack to
> a couple of towers here I mused on whether or not frost line has an
> application to burying coax cable and low voltage control lines.
>
> I get why one buries water pipes below the frost line as well as house
> foundations, by why radio cables? Is frost heave an issue for cables if one
> has some slack on either line of the line?
>
> 73
>
> Bill AA7XXT
> Glade Park CO
> DM59pa
> ___________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 22:06:15 -0500
> From: "Gary \"Joe\" Mayfield" <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> To: "'William Hein'" <bill.aa7xt@gmail.com>,
> <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> Message-ID: <COL129-DS1175B1C01D6220C5D223878AA20@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I had a water line freeze at 6 feet last winter.... My coax is down 18
> inches (inside PVC) and has worked well for years.
>
> 73,
> Joe kk0sd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> William Hein
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 6:24 PM
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] burying cable
>
> As I sweat through digging (with a trencher and by hand) trenches putting
> Commscope AVA7-50 hardline (eBay deal) and control lines from the shack to
> a couple of towers here I mused on whether or not frost line has an
> application to burying coax cable and low voltage control lines.
>
> I get why one buries water pipes below the frost line as well as house
> foundations, by why radio cables? Is frost heave an issue for cables if one
> has some slack on either line of the line?
>
> 73
>
> Bill AA7XXT
> Glade Park CO
> DM59pa
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:59:05 -0700
> From: "W7ZZ" <w7zz@wavecable.com>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] AN Tower
> Message-ID: <005601d0abd6$9e64edb0$db2ec910$@wavecable.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I looked at Trylon and AN Wireless (now AN Structures) at Dayton when I was
> deciding what to purchase 7 years ago. No offense to K7LXC, but there was no
> comparison. Yes, as I am discovering, the rebar/concrete
> contractor/concrete cost is very high for the AN towers if you follow their
> specs (I will have two), but I am erecting mine in a seasonal high wind area
> (and I mean 60-70 mph sustained winds and gusts well above that in November,
> typically) and next to a VERY expensive custom home, and I will sleep
> soundly at night that the AN tower will never, ever endanger my home. I am
> not bad mouthing the Trylon. Were I putting less of a load at the top and
> were it in a fall zone that did not include my house, it would be very
> acceptable and much less expensive. AN is a VERY expensive way to go (see
> my earlier post regarding freight cost, cost of renting a truck to get It to
> your site, hiring help to offload it at your site, cost of excavation, cost
> of concrete contractor, cost of concrete, cost of crane service to erect . .
> . . ). In the past, I have owned a Rohn HDBX48. The Trylon was more like
> that and the AN was more like a Sherman tank, or maybe a Panzer ---- I'm not
> much into tanks, but you get the idea. Not only do you have to consider the
> tower breaking or falling over at the base, but you need to consider its
> ability to sustain rotational/torsion forces. If you could just see the two
> towers side by side, which one is superior would be obvious, but yes, cost
> is a huge factor. The purchase cost of the AN tower is, in my opinion,
> about 50% of the cost to get it actually in the air and then it is an
> impossible tower to climb due to its diagonal struts, without the fall
> arrest optiong (expensive but safety conscious).
>
>
>
> W7ZZ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 00:35:23 -0400
> From: Mickey Baker <n4mb@arrl.net>
> To: W7ZZ <w7zz@wavecable.com>
> Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] AN Tower
> Message-ID:
> <CAOB+T5ZMf9fM2vYXCf3RkrbPhiZ2KH79X9ybANedPwQo-iH1UA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>>> W7ZZ wrote:
> "...if you could just see the two
> towers side by side, which one is superior would be obvious, but yes, cost
> is a huge factor."
>
> Perhaps someone can post a link to a closeup photograph of the construction
> of one or both to illustrate this? Something to set scale would be nice,
> whether a ruler or a soda can.
>
> It's worth a thousand words.
>
> 73,
>
> Mickey N4MB
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 01:51:57 -0400
> From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> Message-ID: <558650FD.2000405@tm.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>> On 6/20/2015 7:23 PM, William Hein wrote:
>> As I sweat through digging (with a trencher and by hand) trenches putting
>> Commscope AVA7-50 hardline (eBay deal) and control lines from the shack to
>> a couple of towers here I mused on whether or not frost line has an
>> application to burying coax cable and low voltage control lines.
>>
>> I get why one buries water pipes below the frost line as well as house
>> foundations, by why radio cables? Is frost heave an issue for cables if one
>> has some slack on either line of the line?
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bill AA7XXT
>> Glade Park CO
>> DM59pa
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> --
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 03:05:25 -0400
> From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] burying cable
> Message-ID: <55866235.4090101@tm.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> It depends on the soil, the moisture content and the freeze thaw rate
> and cycles.
>
> I have a man door on the shop where they did not go deep enough with the
> sand over which we poured the stoop, or porch floor. In the summer that
> door clears the concrete by several inches. In the winter I can only
> open the door about 30 degrees before it hits the concrete. If I had
> direct bury coax coming up through that, it would pull it apart.
> The soil is either sand, clay, or peat with a high moisture content.
> This year the frost may have made 10 to 12". Code calls for either 30,
> or 36" deep for water lines. The frost line may move up and down 4 or 5
> time in our winters and sometime it hardly moves all winter.
>
> So coax around here is pulled through 4 or 5" conduit although the 5" is
> 1/8th inch wall sewer pipe. All 90 deg bends are two 45 deg sweeps. Even
> in the harshest winters the frost is no where that deep EXCEPT under
> driveways and sidewalks.
>
> Trenching 4 to 5' is quite easy if you do not have a lot of rocks. I
> rented a skid steer trencher and did about 130' diagonally across the
> driveway from the power pole to the meter on the house. I think it took
> less than an hour with the driveway being the slowest. IIRC I snapped a
> shear pin in there somewhere. I put 4" conduit down 4' and the cable
> feed a foot above that in 1/2" PVC. The crew was really happy to see
> tht pull line already in place. They used it to pull their half inch (I
> think). IIRC they didn't even bother with pull/wire soap.
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>> On 6/20/2015 7:23 PM, William Hein wrote:
>> As I sweat through digging (with a trencher and by hand) trenches putting
>> Commscope AVA7-50 hardline (eBay deal) and control lines from the shack to
>> a couple of towers here I mused on whether or not frost line has an
>> application to burying coax cable and low voltage control lines.
>>
>> I get why one buries water pipes below the frost line as well as house
>> foundations, by why radio cables? Is frost heave an issue for cables if one
>> has some slack on either line of the line?
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bill AA7XXT
>> Glade Park CO
>> DM59pa
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> --
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:43:50 -0500
> From: Patrick Greenlee <patrick_g@windstream.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] AN tower
> Message-ID: <5586BF96.2020403@windstream.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> A caveat regarding wind generators on towers. A good friend had a 100
> ft tower with wind generator on top. Unfortunately it was not properly
> engineered for a wind generator although it was sold expressly for that
> purpose as a package deal. In just a few years the tower failed and
> crashed to the ground destroying the generator and mangling the tower
> components.
>
> The tower was constructed of seamless steel tubing with 1/4 walls and 4
> inch ID in 20 ft lengths with welded on flanges for bolting together.
> The three legs are on 14 ft centers at the ground, a fairly substantial
> tower. Each leg sat on an 18 inch diameter 7 ft deep concrete pier. So
> why did it fail?
>
> When spun up by the wind the generator makes a considerable gyroscope.
> When the wind changes direction without slowing considerably first the
> gyroscope translates a change in azimuth to a force trying to tilt the
> generator up or down (aim the generator's axis of rotation out of the
> horizontal.) This gyroscopic action was not properly allowed for and
> eventually led to the towers dramatic catastrophic failure.
>
> Towers well designed for supporting antennas may not be built such that
> they will survive the gyroscopic force translations. Sufficient
> materials were salvaged from this collapsed tower to reconstitute the
> bottom 40 feet. I tilted that 40 ft recreation over (two hinged legs)
> and dismantled it for transit to my QTH and have refurbed it. It may be
> seen on my QRZ page along with the three foundations for its legs. The
> guy on the ladder is my good friend John who is mech eng with 35 years
> hands on experience. He sanity checks my wild ideas as well as visiting
> me for 10 days each year to help with projects.
>
> Executive summary: Be careful just sticking a wind generator on a tower
> designed for antennas. You might be in for an exciting surprise.
>
> Patrick NJ5G
>
>
>
>> On 6/19/2015 7:30 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> Well, in my case, I had to allow for some ridiculous wind issues here
>> at my QTH and I wanted to make sure that whatever tower I put up would
>> handle any large antenna (or wind generator) I might one day decide to
>> install on it, since I certainly was only going to have one tower ...
>> ever. I live on an easterly hillside near the south end of a mountain
>> range where the dominant wind direction is from the southwest. The
>> winds that get blocked by the south end of the mountain range recover
>> in the form of swirlers that roar down the hillside and across my lot
>> like a freight train. Spring thermals bring wind gusts every three to
>> five minutes that often reach 70 to 80 mph, and I've seen days where
>> 90 mph is not uncommon. The strongest I've recorded was greater than
>> 100 mph, and that on a clear day.
>>
>> So I bought the strongest tower I could reasonably afford, although
>> the Trylon might be the better value in terms of cost versus utility.
>> To each his own.
>>
>> I do agree that the foundation seems to be overkill, though, and mine
>> took 20 cubic yards of concrete. That's roughly 40 tons worth planted
>> six feet in the ground, and if the tower was five times stronger than
>> it is now I bet it would still fail before the foundation budged.
>>
>> The rebar cage design looked odd to me as well, but I didn't have any
>> problem at all building it --- as the pictures on my web site show.
>>
>> Shipping (from Pennsylvania at the time) was also expensive. I bought
>> mine in 2008 and the freight cost to southern Arizona was almost
>> $1200, and it would probably be even more now.
>>
>> No doubt about it ... my tower and antennas have far and away been the
>> most expensive aspects of my ham radio addiction.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 6/19/2015 10:29 AM, K7LXC--- via TowerTalk wrote:
>>> Howdy, TowerTalkians --
>>> I've installed dozens of towers at amateur and commercial
>>> sites over
>>> the years and I have found the AN towers to be battleship stout
>>> (which in
>>> many cases is not necessary for a ham installation) but expensive to
>>> buy and
>>> install.
>>> One of my major complaints is that the base design is WAY
>>> overbuilt
>>> compared to all the other towers I've installed. The last one specified
>>> approximately 3 times the amount of concrete than for similar towers
>>> from other
>>> manufacturers. To me it's a pure waste of time and money for the
>>> unneeded
>>> additional concrete.
>>> Also the rebar cage is overly complicated in its design. I've
>>> built
>>> many rebar cages but I had to hire a concrete contractor to be able
>>> to build
>>> it per their spec. Even the concrete contractor was scratching his head
>>> over the design.
>>> To me, this is another instance of an engineer working in an air
>>> conditioned office who designs it but never has to be out in the
>>> field to
>>> install one. (They're not the only manufacturer to do this.)
>>> For a similar tower height and capacity, anyone installing a
>>> Trylon
>>> Titan tower would save up to $3000+ by buying it rather than the AN.
>>> Just
>>> offering a money saving option.
>>> Yes, I sell Trylon towers but that's because I've found them
>>> to be the
>>> best value in a self-supporting tower around and lots of people are
>>> interested in that.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Steve K7LXC
>>> TOWER TECH -
>>> Professional tower services for amateurs
>>> Cell: 206-890-4188
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 150, Issue 40
> ******************************************
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