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Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Grinding hole in thick steel plate?

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Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Grinding hole in thick steel plate?
From: Patrick Greenlee <patrick_g@windstream.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 14:02:02 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>

Aww, cummon Chris, where is the fun in that? It is way too fast, easy, cheap, and elegantly simple. Please, let's get back to arguing about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. ;) ;) What to do with all the left over counterproductive righteous indignation?

Patrick        NJ5G


On 9/8/2015 11:14 AM, Chris wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned this possibility:  Fill in the existing hole 
with weld and start over.

Chris
KF7P





On Sep 8, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:

Roger makes a number of good points.  I would add a couple.

Annular cutters are basically end mills, so if you have a rigid enough setup, 
one might be carefully be used to off-center enlarge a hole.  A Mag-Drill is 
designed for such cutters to drill into heavy plate but they and cutters are 
not cheap.  The advantage is only a ring of steel is being removed, not the 
entire hole as with a twist drill.  That reduces the thrust force needed to a 
level that can be handled by the electro-magnet that holds the drill to the 
plate. Plenty of cutting coolant is needed.

A "hole saw"  would be useless in 3/4" thick steel plate and without a pilot 
drill center just wouldn't work no matter how rigid the setup.  Don't ask how I've broken off 
a saw hub.  Metal fatigue won.

I know it is appealing to use an end mill of the hole diameter to move the center, but 
for moving a 1.5" hole 0.25", that is an expensive end mill ($150).  So for 
this job I would use a boring head and carbide tipped bar ($15).  it will take a bit 
longer, but much less downside in tooling costs and usually in most hobby machinist tool 
boxes.  That is also a much too large an end mill for a Bridgeport cutting steel.

One other way to enlarge a hole is a "core drill"  which is specifically designed for that purpose.  However, they 
won't move a hole off its nominal center.  Usually, they only cut on the outer one half to one third of the radius of the 
drill.  With a tapered lead, they center on the existing hole and enlarge it to the drill size.  If used in a mill or lathe, 
near reamer tolerances and finish are possible.  It is practical to use one up to about 5/8" dia in a hand drill.  I 
think the source of the name "core" comes from the need to drill "cored" holes in castings to the 
desired size.  They are particularly useful in a lathe to quickly increase an inside diameter rather than multiple boring 
bar passes, e.g 1" to 2" in one pass, but that takes all of the 10 horsepower in my big lathe. Impressive (and 
dangerous) swarf 'though.

There are core drill sets that are pretty useful to 3/4", particularly for 
pilot holes for a large chassis punch and larger holes in thicker steel.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORSEMAN-MAGNUM-SP-8HH-HOLE-HOG-REAMER-DRILL-BIT-4-FLUTE-SET-3-8-3-4-USA-/301607300147?hash=item4639322c33

As Roger points out many "hand held" drills have the torque to hurt.  A friend 
broke his wrist recently with one that grabbed.

Grant KZ1W



On 9/8/2015 3:03 AM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
Using the original plate as a guide in a drill press, or a hand held with a 
magnetic base is a good approach.  I don't know if the off center cutting will 
force the side of the bit to cut into the guide,  Use good, substantial, 
C-Clamps to hold the plate and guide securely to the press base plate, guide.  
Don't use small clamps.

The best, safest, and quickest is still a machine shop, or someone with a mill 
that knows how to use it.
A high speed grinder with "good bits is slow and tedious work, There is also a 
learning curve. I know it's tempting and I'm the type who wants to do it himself, 
but...

I know I'm covering a little more than the original post asked, but I think 
it's appropriate.

Large drill bits used off center with out a good, solid guide tend to grab and once 
they grab, they tend to bounce around the hole, grabbing as they go with each grab 
becoming more dangerous.  They are likely to become a real arm, or leg breaker if 
you use your leg as a brace because each grab is an impact rather a ramped up 
resistance easily surpassing several hundred pounds of force.(It's like dropping a 
200 or 300 rock on your leg, arm, or hand).  IOW, The drill bit can become very 
dangerous.  Those who are not familiar with what can and likely will happen, believe 
they can hold it.  I've had a drill grab while enlarging the hole on center. 
Thankfully it burned up the motor on the largest Dewalt 1/2" drill motor Lowe's 
sells before it did anything serious to me. I thought I could hold one until then.

Example:  I know an electrician who had the cord get wrapped around his hand. 
When the drill grabbed, it pulled his thumb out, separating the thumb from his 
hand completely.  He had to climb down 3 stories on steel ladders after the 
incident.

I can't emphasize how dangerous Redrilling a large bolt hole, "off center" can be. 
There are only two safe ways to do it. One is with a milling machine, or a cutting torch 
(Plasma, or Ox-Acetylene). There is a third way using a heavy duty, high speed grinder using a 
carbide bit or a heavy duty abrasive grinding bit and not the cheap ones.   Colors indicate 
hardness.   Pink is soft and for finishing. Dark gray is for harder metals and better for 
hogging out steel metal plates , like 3/4" metal plates.  I use carbide bits and abrasive 
grinding bits rated for 40,000 RPM.  40,000 is not a misprint.  Typical big box and hardware 
store bits are rated at 5,000 RPM and are very likely to explode in a real high speed grinder 
or die grinder.

Always wear a full face shield and safety glasses with side shields with this 
kind of equipment..  Safety goggles, or safety glasses with side shields by 
themselves are not considered sufficient.  As I have to rely on experienced 
volunteers, I'm sometimes reluctant to insist on the full face shield

The strong magnetic brace becomes a necessity, but are not guaranteed to hold a bit 
that has grabbed when "trying to drill off center.. OTOH they GENERALLY  do 
tend to only kick to the center of the hole and allow you to let go of the trigger.  
As I've said before, it can be almost impossible to let go of the trigger on a hand 
held drill motor  that is grabbing, or has grabbed.  They are dangerous on a drill 
press, and far worse on a portable setup.

By the far the safest and bet is an end mill of the proper size. Unfortunately, 
I've never seen one with a smaller shank to fit a drill motor or drill press.  
The end mill, fed slowly, with a water based lube spray is almost a necessity 
and  they give a very clean hole of the proper size.  Never, ever try to use 
one, hand held.  They are expensive and need a rigid hold as with a milling 
machine.  The shank, or quill on even an expensive drill press is just too 
flexible.  There is a reason the larger end mills are gripped with a collet of 
the same size.

If you can find some one ( or a shop you trust) with a milling machine that will tackle the job, 
it's a very simple setup and easy to do.  It's helpful to have the plate setup of the proper 
orientation, but as you are using the mill as a drill press, with the plate "tightly 
clamped", it's not necessary.  However many shops do not like to do this kind of work.  Never 
suggest "only a drill bit will do the work!".  It tells them you do not know the dangers 
you are suggesting or want them to do something dangerous.  Depend on them for the proper equipment 
to use.    The drill bit usually won't and is usually very dangerous to boot.  A complete set of 
2-flute and 4-flute end mills, plus ball end mills males a set or top quality drill bits look 
cheap! Add to the the need for a required set of collets

I have a old, big Bridgeport Mill.  The head needs to be rebuilt as the key has 
been sheared, probably from just such an operation and why It was so cheap. A 
mill with a keyless chuck is the best drill press you can find.  A ball end 
mill makes a very good, but expensive drill bit.

BTW You can purchase a gallon jug of lubricant to mix with water from most any 
industrial supply house and use it in a little hand held spray bottle.  There 
are also spray bottles fat last a long time and many small jobs.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Accu-Lube-Pump-Spray-Lubricant/H9239
I'm just a customer, have no interest in the company.

Proper lubricants will make the use easier, while bits, taps, and saw blades 
last much longer.

73

Roger (K8RI)


On 9/7/2015 2:33 PM, Rich Hallman - N7TR wrote:
I had a ¾ inch steel plate made up that will be used to retrofit a HDX589 base 
foundation to a HDX572 base.   After giving both bases to the machine shop and asking 
them to make sure all of the holes are exactly the same location as the base, some of the 
holes are 1/8 to ¼ inch off.   I had a major issue with this machine shop so I will 
not take it back for now.

I wanted to see what others have done to grind out holes in thick steel plate.

I was looking at the Carbide Burr bits and getting a ¾ inch burr bit to see if 
that would grid enough from the hole so it would then fit the bases.

The holes are pretty close....so I thought grinding them out would be the best 
solution for now.

Any thoughts?

Thanks....Rich

Rich N7TR
ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV
www.n7tr.com<http://www.n7tr.com>
http://www.qrz.com/db/N7TR
Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR DXCluster

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