It is true that gain changes a few tenths of a db over the range of 
radial heights.  Antenna efficiency matters more than gain changes for 
verticals near earth.
 The height matters a great deal below 10ft high.  It is less sensitive 
the more radials.  My antenna is a T, 77ft of vertical wire and two 36ft 
top hats with 8x 125ft radials at 10ft.
 So here is a comparison for my antenna R (=Rr+Rg) over average ground 
for 2 x 125ft vs 8 x 125ft.  Modeled EZNEC Pro/4.2 with radials at 
different heights over average ground:
ht-ft   2 rad   8 rad
5       33      25.2
10      33      24.3
15      30      23.5
20      29      22.8
25      28      22
50              19
75              17
100             14
 A 2:1 TLT matching transformer shows a 1.1:1 SWR at resonance for my 
antenna with radials at 10ft.
 The difference in efficiency between the 2 and 8 radials at 10 ft is 
1.38db, using K8YC 10log(ohm ratio) formula. For my 8 radial antenna the 
Rg loss difference is 0.28db between 10ft and 20ft high.
 The difference in efficiency between my 8 radial as built and free space 
(100ft proxy) is 2.34 db.    The take off angle also changes from 23* to 
15*.  A plan B vs near/over salt water is put the antenna on top of a 10 
story building. ;)
 So my conclusion during design (tree supported T in a forest) was the 
effort/performance was just fine at 10ft. Plus being in a forest causes 
more near field radiation loss - maybe 4 or more db.  As one poster 
said, "all the trees are cut down around BCB antennas".
 The advice to have elevated radials at least as high as 10% of the 
wavelength seems fairly practical for higher bands.  Likewise, more 
radials are better until as Rudy showed, there isn't much benefit >8.
 With a coil loaded short radials 2 radial DXpedition antenna we tested 
the difference between 4 ft and 12ft was on the order of 10 ohms. Again, 
height matters most with few radials, more so with shortened ones.
Grant KZ1W
On 12/3/2022 15:00, Artek Manuals wrote:
 If you read N6LF's work closely (see fig16 in 3/2012 QEX) you will see 
that radial height above 5' adds a few 10ths of a db improvement at 
most. (8ft =.015 wavelength above ground) Given noise and QSB on 160 
hardly worth the effort ..IMO.  Ditto on the number of radials more than 
4 at a reasonable (8') height buys very little as well. What is actually 
more important is soil conductivity  Rich farm loam vs sandy Florida 
(Fig 15)  is worth 5DB !!! I cant imagine trying to keep sixteen 134' 
radials 20 feet in the air !
 Another good read on elevated radials ( non resonant radials) that 
doesn't get much play is by K5IU, "Optimal Elevated Radial Vertical 
Antennas" , Communication Qrtly, spring 1997. If Google is not your 
friend contact me off list and I will send you a copy.
Dave NR1DX
On 12/3/2022 2:17 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
 
On 12/3/2022 10:20 AM, Chuck Dietz wrote:
 
Thanks for the info. I think I am going with 60 radials on the ground. I
 want to use the 160 vertical tower to support an 80 meter array 
around it.
Elevated radials might make adjustments way more complicated. 
 
 It's worth studying N6LF's work on elevated radials. He stresses that 
keeping radial currents equal reduces loss, that making them slightly 
shorter than resonant helps that, and so does having MORE elevated 
radials -- for example, 8 is better than four. From N6BT, I learned 
that elevated radials for 160M should be at least 16-20 ft high; I 
learned that when I asked him why my 4 ft high radials weren't working 
well.
 
I have a
 tractor and a good welder guy to weld a bracket and tube to a single 
plow
shear to make a radial plow.
 
 
 Remember that the only virtue of burying radials is to protect them 
from damage, or from being a trip hazard. We are NOT trying to couple 
the antenna to the earth. The function of radials is to SHIELD the 
field produced by the antenna from the lossy earth, and to provide a 
low resistance path for the antenna's return current IN PLACE OF THE 
LOSSY EARTH.
 Radials DO couple to the earth, and the ground loss shows up as series 
resistance. But radial current divides by the number of radials, power 
loss is I-squared R, so gets smaller in each radial twice as fast as 
the number of radials is increased, so more radials reduces loss.
73, Jim K9YC
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
 
 
  
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
 
 |