Is it increasing age that is causing me to have trouble understanding folks
these days?
Pete Smith (N4ZR) asked for a copy or URL of WRTC 2002 release 18. I assume
Pete, like myself, would like to read it to better understand what the
thread is all about. Having no luck in finding 18, the best I can do is
form conclusions based on the fragments that have appeared in the thread.
This morning Tony Rogozinski (N7BG) responds to Pete in derogatory terms
that have nothing to do with Pete's request.
My two long term loves in ham radio have been contesting and dxing. The lack
of discipline and apathy of a large percentage of the dx crowd has reduced
my primary interest in the hobby to contesting. Perhaps it's in my best
interest to stop reading the reflectors and just get on and work the
contests I enjoy.
73 de Larry K7SV
----- Original Message -----
From: <cq-contest-request@contesting.com>
To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 9:15 PM
Subject: CQ-Contest digest, Vol 1 #101 - 12 msgs
> Send CQ-Contest mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CQ-Contest digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. My WPX CW UBN file (VA3UZ)
> 2. spotting statistics (jljarvis)
> 3. Re: NS3T's wild accusation (Ron Notarius WN3VAW)
> 4. Re: Money talks (Team U.A. E.) (Kele YT3T)
> 5. station availability (David Robbins)
> 6. Re: Re: Money talks (Team U.A. E.) (Pete Smith)
> 7. Upcoming Contests for Mobiles (Hal Offutt)
> 8. SSB reports (Bob Cox)
> 9. Re: Eu Sprint 2002 (Dmitri Bagno (RW3FO))
> 10. Re: [NCCC] NS3T's wild accusation (Alan Maenchen)
> 11. Re: spotting statistics (Jamie Dupree)
> 12. spots. who needs 'em? (W. Wright, W5XD)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "VA3UZ" <va3uz@rac.ca>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] My WPX CW UBN file
>
> Bad or non verifiable CALL SIGNS excluded from the score:
>
> QSO: 21032 CW 2001-05-26 1530 VA3UZ 599 1047 VE3RKF 599
> 126
> QSO: 14044 CW 2001-05-27 0315 VA3UZ 599 1976 K0IAL 599
> 194
>
> Ironically, just heard K0IAL on 20 m SSB. Mike from Iowa....
>
> One more funny thing:
>
> QSOs found, by cross checking, to have unmatchable serial numbers not
> excluded from the score:
>
> QSO: 21032 CW 2001-05-26 1751 VA3UZ 599 1271 N6NF
599
> 27
> ..............................................Serial number should be:
1
>
>
> < SNIP >
>
>
> QSO: 14025 CW 2001-05-27 2241 VA3UZ 599 2887 N6NF 599
> 267
> ..............................................Serial number should be:
1
>
> Does N6NF have all the serial numbers "1" in his LOG? :-)) Just curios.
>
>
> 73 Yuri VA3UZ
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "jljarvis" <jljarvis@abs.adelphia.net>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] spotting statistics
>
>
>
> The problem with data...any data...is understanding it. NS3T's doesn't
> take into account the TOTAL NUMBER OF SPOTS FROM EACH STATION. It may
> be that what is reported represents only a small percentage of total spots
> for any given station, and is not only not material statistically, it
might
> not be memorable during the heat of a contest.
>
> Take an extreme case....Suppose a m/m has a mult hunting/spotting
position.
> All it's doing is feeding the station network with mults for band S&P
follow-up,
> and dumping spots on the net. It might spot...10-15 an hour, for 48
hours.
> That's 480 to 720 spots in a contest. Suppose there are different ops in
that
> chair. What is the chance they'll randomly spot HC8N 4 times on 10
meters?
> When 10 is hot, I'd say pretty fair. Chances of 10-12 spots happening are
> high, in fact.
>
> What does it mean? Absolutely nothing, statistically.
>
> Let's take the top poster on Jamie's list....IR3P. He spotted FM5GU 30
times,
> half of which were on 20 meters. Is there something wrong with that?
Suppose
> IR3P has buddies who NEED FM, and he was making sure they knew where he
was.
> We don't know whether that was 100% of IR3P's total spots, or 1%; but
> it was probably in the minority. It averages less than one an hour...and
less
> than one every TWO hours on 20 meters. Is that a lot? Doesn't seem so.
>
> Here's another factor:
> Most EU spots tend to go to DXSummit, and are visible worldwide. Some US
clubs
> still close their network to outside spots...and vice versa....so you
might have
> more aggressive spotting within a club than is visible globally. Where's
the
> fairness factor there?
>
> Again, I urge caution in reaching judgement on this issue. If you
stipulate
> that self-spotting is a proscribed behavior, then the only remaining
question
> is "what's excessive spotting of other guys?".
>
> My response would be, "Who cares?". Why discourage spotting at all? The
more
> you spot, the more you drain resource that could be producing Q's for your
own
> station. If you overdo it, the packet bandwidth starts to backlog. It's
a
> self-limiting behavior, both ways.
>
> Let's talk about something else.
>
> Jim Jarvis, N2EA
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Ron Notarius WN3VAW" <wn3vaw@fyi.net>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] NS3T's wild accusation
>
> Tom,
>
> My experience was exactly the opposite -- I had a lot of DX stations (I
> stopped counting at 30) ask me to put them on the cluster. I had 2 or 3
> that seemed perturbed when I declined -- one S5 station called me a, hmmm,
> compared me to a portion of the human anatomy that rarely see much
sunshine
> (and maybe I am sometimes, aren't we all, but that still does not strike
me
> as an appropriate transmission during the contest!).
>
> Personally, I found NS3T's statistics interesting but inconclusive. Since
> we don't know who actually generated the spots, proving self-spotting
> without further details would be difficult. Be so as it may, while I
think
> a rule clarification regarding soliciting for or self-spotting may be
worth
> considering for most contests, I don't know what more can be done.
>
> 73, ron wn3vaw
>
> "There's No Crying in Baseball!"
> -- Jimmie Dugan, "A League of Their Own"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Osborne <w7why@harborside.com>
> Reply-To: w7why@harborside.com
> Organization: Amateur Radio W7WHY
> To: CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] NS3T's wild accusation
>
> Dave Tucker wrote:
> >
> > I made a concentrated effort to spot stations during the WPX
> >whenever I was in S&P mode.
>
> Hi Dave
>
> Did you ask these stations if they wanted to be spotted?? I've
> read posts where lots of DX stations don't want to be spotted
> during a contest. Slows the rate down considerably. Maybe we
> can have a new category MSBASDAC--Most Spots By A Station During
> A Contest.
> Tom W7WHY
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: "Kele YT3T" <yt3t@absolutok.net>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re: Money talks (Team U.A. E.)
>
> Pretty amusing to see (wealthy) people complaining to the selection of
> U.A.E. guest ops...
>
> For an average YU ham, you are ALL very wealthy, and from our point of
view,
> the sport of contesting is "money talks' indeed. To let you get an idea,
an
> average YU ham has to spend his whole 2-year income to be able to set a
> station consisting of: one modern transceiver, one kilowatt amplifier, one
> rotor, one modest tower, one tribander and minimum of required cables and
> wires. I did NOT say 2-year savings, but 2-year salaries. And just a few
> months more to get a modest computer.
>
> I do not think that A61AJ have spent his 2+year income to set his station,
> just as many of you who maintain super stations.
>
> So, the real money consumption in contesting activities happens in my
> neighbourhood, and I am desperate, since they all expect me to run this
> race. Oh well, I hope some of you will print your QSL cards at my
printshop
> :-)
>
> 73
> Kele
> YT3T, YU1AO
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: "David Robbins" <k1ttt@arrl.net>
> To: <yccc@yccc.org>, "reflector cq-contest" <CQ-Contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] station availability
>
> My station is available for most of the spring/summer contests. I am
> booked for WPX CW, NE QSO Party, CQ-M, and maybe IARU. If you are
> interested in trying out any of the other summer contests please contact
> me directly. This is a chance to try out big antennas, different radios
> and amps, bring friends and do a multi-op, etc.
>
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> From: Pete Smith <n4zr@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re: Money talks (Team U.A. E.)
>
> At 08:00 PM 4/13/02 +0200, Kele YT3T wrote:
> >Pretty amusing to see (wealthy) people complaining to the selection of
> >U.A.E. guest ops...
>
> I have been searching in vain for the press release that started all this
> -- The WRTC web site does not have press release #18. Could it possibly
be
> a hoax? If not, could someone either send me the text directly or point
me
> to a URL?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> Check out the World HF
> Contest Station Database at
> www.pvrc.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: Hal Offutt <japancorporateresearch@compuserve.com>
> To: cq-contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Upcoming Contests for Mobiles
>
> Hi,
>
> Most of you probably read the great article by Jim K8MR on mobile
> contesting in the March/April 2002 issue of NCJ.
>
> Jim pointed out the similarity between the mobile category in state QSO
> parties and the WRTC: operators in both events compete from very similar
> stations and under very similar conditions. He explained the great fun
and
> challenge of mobile contesting: laying out a route before the contest,
> operating from a vehicle while enjoying the countryside scenery, good
> pileups and rates, and real competition. He also noted how much fun it
can
> be for non-mobile stations to follow the mobiles around and work them in
> each new county they enter.
>
> Mobile contesting has become increasingly popular during the past few
> years. I think this is mainly due to the involvement of contest clubs in
> the resurrection of the FQP, the OQP, the GAQP and the MQP and their
> success in getting a lot of first class ops out on the roads. Another
> enabling factor is the availability of so many compact 12V HF rigs at
> reasonable prices. More and more state QSO parties now have achieved what
> I think is the minimum number of active mobiles (six to eight) necessary
to
> make an interesting event for all participants. I expect to see even more
> mobiles out there in the future as people discover just how much fun this
> form of contesting is.
>
> Four of the best events for mobile contesting are coming up over the next
> three weeks. If Jim's article stimulated your interest with his article,
> you will have ample opportunity coming up to experience this brand of
> contesting activity, either from your home QTH or from your own vehicle.
> Brief information on these events is shown below.
>
> First, a couple of notes:
>
> 1. These events are rapidly becoming true *CONTESTS*, not simply low-key
> county hunting events. The counties are the means, not the end. Most of
> the mobile operators in the events I detail below (with one exception) are
> not especially interested in county hunting. If you do chase counties,
> though, there's no better forum.
>
> 2. Some of the top ops in the country are getting out there on the road
in
> these events. Take a look at the results from previous years and at the
> list of guys planning to operate this year and you'll see what I mean.
>
>
> 3. Although these contests are all centered in the US, activity from
> outside the US is permitted and very welcome.
>
> 4. There are pileups every time a mobile changes counties. That's around
> 160 pileups during a 12 hour contest where 8 mobiles each change counties
> 20 times. This is a great opportunity to practice your pileup-busting
> technique. How often can you be the first station into the mobile's log?
>
> 5. Plenty of cool wallpaper and plaques available.
>
>
>
> Upcoming Contests with Major Mobile Activity
>
>
> 1. Michigan QSO Party, sponsored by the Mad River Radio Club, April 20-21
>
> A 12 hour event from 1600Z to 0400Z Saturday (noon to midnight EDST).
Nine
> mobiles were active last year, with the winner making 924 contacts. SSB
> and CW but emphasis on CW. Mobiles handed out nearly 5,000 contacts in
> all. Attracts some of the top ops in the Midwest. Most MI counties get
> activated.
>
> Rules and results: http://mrrc.net
>
>
>
> 2. Florida QSO Party, sponsored by the Florida Contest Group, April
27-28
>
>
> A 20 hour event in two ten-hour time periods: Sat 1600Z to 0159Z (noon to
> 10 PM EDST) and Sun 1200Z to 2159Z (8 AM to 6 PM EDST). SSB and CW, good
> activity on both modes. 10 mobiles were active last year and there were
> 403 total log submissions. All FL counties were active. High mobile QSO
> count was 1207.
>
> Rules and results: http://www.qsl.net/fcg
>
>
>
> 3. New England QSO Party, sponsored by YCCC and several local clubs, May
> 4-5
>
> A 20 hour event in two time periods: Sat 2000Z to 0300Z (4 PM to 11 PM
> EDST) and Sun 1100Z to 2400Z (7 AM to 8 PM EDST).
> Both SSB and CW. This is the first running of a new event that brings the
> six small New England states under one QSO party umbrella. Promises to
> turn some sleepy NE state QSO parties into a real contest. 8 mobiles have
> already announced plans to be active, and the sponsors are aiming to get
> all NE counties on.
>
> Rules: http://neqp.org
>
>
>
> 4. County Hunters' Contest CW, sponsored by the Mobile Amateur Radio
> Awards Club, May 4-5
>
> A 48 hour event from 0000Z Saturday to 2400Z Sunday (8 PM Friday night to
8
> PM Sunday night EDST). CW only. No significant activity during the
night.
> Fixed stations can work each other as well as the mobiles but mobiles
> count 15 points against 1 point for fixed station contacts, so activity is
> focussed on the mobiles. This is the only event of the year where mobiles
> in different states can contact and compete with each other. 15 mobiles
> were active in 2001, with the winner's QSO total at 1905 and the high
> multiplier at 340. The overlap with the NEQP this year should make for
> even more activity.
>
>
> The Indiana QSO Party is also scheduled for Saturday, May 4 from 1300Z to
> 0500Z (9 AM to 1 AM) so you can work the NEQP, the CHC, and the INQP at
the
> same time. Info at www.qsl.net/kj9d/inqp/rules.html.
>
>
> 73 & GL,
>
> Hal W1NN
>
>
> ______________________________________
> Japan Corporate Research
> Research and Consulting Services on Japan
> www.japancorporateresearch.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: "Bob Cox" <K3EST@cqww.com>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] SSB reports
>
>
> Dear Fellow Contesters,
>
> The 2001 CQ WW SSB UBN and NIL reports are now available for you at =
> http://www.cqww.com . Just find your call and click. Enter your password =
> which everyone who submitted an email log received. If you submitted =
> only a paper log your call will not appear on the list.
>
> In a few weeks we will place a list of calls + categories + clubs on the =
> cqww.com web site for you to check. An announcement will be made.
>
> The CQ WW will require the cabrillo format for submissions starting with =
> the 2002 contest. All the non-cabrillo 2001 SSB logs on the CQ WW =
> website have been converted to the carbillo format by the CQ WW =
> Committee. The cabrillo format is available with the major contest =
> logging programs.=20
>
> Although we are sure that you are familiar with the reasons why cabrillo =
> is important, here is the main reason: It allows the easy assembly of =
> all the data necessary for compiling the results by the contest sponsor. =
> Without cabrillo the CQ WW Committee must deal with many, many logging =
> formats....which takes many, now unneeded, hundreds of hours.
>
> Approximately 70 % of the logs received for the 2001 CQ WW SSB test were =
> already in the cabrillo format. This was great! Thanks.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K3EST
> CQ WW Director
>
>
>
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Dmitri Bagno (RW3FO)" <bagno@mai.ru>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Eu Sprint 2002
>
> Two nice certificates came today for EuSprint 2001 --
> thank you Paolo, Dave, Bernhard & Karel!
>
> --Dmitri (RW3FO)
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "Alan Maenchen" <ad6e@inreach.com>
> To: "Dave Tucker" <ddddd@attbi.com>, <CQ-Contest@contesting.com>
> Cc: <ns3t@arrl.net>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re: [NCCC] NS3T's wild accusation
>
> Thanks Dave for bringing this to light.
> Its one of the reasons I've un-subscribed to CQ-Contest
>
> If NS3T doesn't want to see all those spots he should turn it off.
>
> So far as "self spotting" goes, he should correlate the spotter to be one
of
> the operators at said spotted station. Looks like his list is simply a
list
> of frequently spotted stations .. not self spotted. However, even that may
> not "work" since an operator can legally spot a M/M station while he is
> operating somewhere else, then go work from that M/M later (or earlier).
No
> problem for non-ARRL contests.
>
> Al AD6E (also, part-time op at KX7M)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Tucker" <ddddd@attbi.com>
> To: <CQ-Contest@contesting.com>
> Cc: <ns3t@arrl.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 17:06
> Subject: [NCCC] NS3T's wild accusation
>
>
> > Below is an accusation by NS3T regarding self spotting. I would like to
> set
> > the record
> > straight for one and all
> >
> > I made a concentrated effort to spot stations during the WPX whenever I
> was
> > in S&P
> > mode. I was very active and probably sent over 350 spots. Many were
dx,
> > many were
> > domestic. Some more than once. That I happened to spot NR6O numerous
> times
> > is in
> > no way a violation of any rule. Where does it state that you can only
spot
> a
> > station
> > once? As far as 4 times on 10 meters, well what can I say, that's my
> > favorite band.
> > NR6O happens to be a station that I am familiar with and in fact was in
> > friendly
> > competition with. I was not at NR6O. There are numberous East and
West
> > coast
> > stations that I spotted more than once. Maybe he is just miffed because
I
> > didn't happen
> > to run across him. I hope you all were able to work them and I
> appreciated
> > the spots
> > that others posted.
> >
> > Lets keep these unfounded accusations out of here, we don't need this
crap
> > in our hobby.
> >
> > Dave Tucker KA6BIM
> >
> >
> >
> > Quote from NS3T on CQ-Contest reflector:
> >
> > "After going thru some 17,000 spots from the CQ WPX SSB
> > contest over
> > the past week, I figured it was time to share some of my work with the
> > reflector. As in the ARRL DX contests, I again found evidence of
> > disguised self-spotting by a number of stations - that will be forwarded
> > to those in charge of the WPX contest.
> >
> > I thought I would start by giving some stats on stations that frequently
> > spotted another station during the contest. I've seen people say that
> > they figure 2 spots per band is "reasonable" for a 48 hour contest; some
> > of these certainly exceed that. I am just listing the top ten.
> >
> > MOST SPOTS OF ANOTHER STATION DURING CQ WPX
> >
> > 1) IR3P spotted FM5GU 30 times - - 15 spots were on 20 meters.
> >
> > 2t) S51QN spotted S58M 28 times - - 15 times on 20m.
> >
> > 2t) CE4VCN spots CB4A 28 times - - 12 spots on 15 meters.
> >
> > 4t) OK1WWJ spots OL5T 21 times- - 5 each on 80 and 40 meters.
> >
> > 4t) RK3QWA spotted 5B4/R3CC 21 times (9x on 10 meters.)
> >
> > 6) N2QER - 13 spots of NY6DX - - 5 spots on both 10/15 meters.
> >
> > 7) UR7IJQ spotted US7IGF 12 times - all were on 15 meters.
> >
> > 8t) KA6BIM spotted NR6O 11 times - 4 were on 10 meters.
> >
> > 8t) PY2SBY spotted PU2WDX 11 times - all on 10 meters.
> > PU2WDX in turn spotted PY2SBY 6 times on 10 meters.
> >
> > 10) KC5JSO spotted T93M/HI9 10 times - five were on 10m.
> >
> >
> > More later.
> >
> > Jamie NS3T"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NCCC mailing list
> > NCCC@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/nccc
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> From: "Jamie Dupree" <ns3t@arrl.net>
> To: <jljarvis@abs.adelphia.net>
> Cc: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re: spotting statistics
>
> Jim -
>
> Thanks for your note.
>
> I should have been more clear in my original posting. I opened the
> discussion about self spotting, but then posted data on something else.
> That was probably a mistake and has resulted in a bit of tempest. :-)
>
> So here is the background that some have asked for...and I
> am making NO judgment about these spots. I simply thought
> the raw numbers of spots were interesting, that's why I posted them
> in the first place.
>
> The reason I got into this is that during the ARRL contest, someone
> spotted under my call. A quick review showed that's happening more
> than we would probably like to admit...but that is not what these
> numbers are about. These are raw numbers of what stations
> spotted another station the most - that's all.
> ---
>
> IR3P made 30 spots of FM5GU - IR3P made no other spots
> in the contest.
>
> S51QN made 28 spots of S58M - S51QN made only one
> other spot in the contest.
>
> CE4CVN made 28 spots of CB4A - CE4VCN made a total of
> 38 spots in the WPX.
>
> OK1WWJ made 21 spots of OL5T - OK1WWJ made only
> two other contest spots that weekend.
>
> RK3QWA spotted 5B4/R3CC 21 times - RK3QWA made
> 112 spots in the WPX.
>
> N2QER spotted NY6DX 13 times - N2QER made 33 total spots.
>
> UR7IJQ spotted US7IGF 12 times - UR7IJQ made only
> one other WPX contest spot.
>
> PY2SBY spotted PU2WDX 11 times - PY2SBY made
> a total of 28 spots in the contest.
>
> KA6BIM spotted NR6O 10 times - as KA6BIM has pointed
> out, he made many more overall spots, a total of 436,
> making this a very small minority.
>
> KC5JSO spotted T93M/HI9 10 times - KC5JSO made a
> total of 19 WPX spots.
>
> So there we go. I am making no wild accusations here -
> I'm just running numbers and looking for a discussion.
> I'm not trying to discourage spotting or cast it in a negative
> light. I still plan to talk further about self spots. But that
> is later, not in the above numbers.
>
> Jamie NS3T
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Reply-To: <w5xd@writelog.com>
> From: "W. Wright, W5XD" <w5xd@writelog.com>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] spots. who needs 'em?
>
> Am I the only person on the planet that thinks running packet in a contest
> REDUCES the enjoyment of the weekend? If the guys that are complaining at
> each other about abusing packet would all just quit using it, they might
> discover you enjoy the sense of accomplishment that comes with finding
your
> own multipliers.
>
> As a software vendor I get requests that I can paraphrase as "please
improve
> the aim of your software for shooting fish in a barrel--there were 100
fish
> in that barrel last weekend and I could have shot more than 90 of them if
> your software were better". I do attempt to "improve the aim" (should I?),
> but one the great mysteries of life is why folks don't try to go find fish
> that haven't been put the the barrel yet?
>
> Wayne, W5XD
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
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>
> End of CQ-Contest Digest
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