In a few years when solar conditions improve and the higher band's become
active again a lot of hams will switch to CW and SSB. FT8 fade away for a
period until the next solar low point.Chuck K9LC
-------- Original message --------From: wa1fcn <wa1fcn@charter.net> Date:
6/20/21 7:52 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Stanley Zawrotny <k4sbz.stan@gmail.com>,
ktfrog007@aol.com Cc: CQ-Contest@contesting.com Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest]
Contesting and the FT8 Revolution GE Stan Well
some would say " the Genie (FT8) is out of the bottle " You know what that
means..... And this will never pass. I can't help but
wonder do you feel DXCC is in great shape and still holds the
respected position it once held? Be honest ask your friends/club members
find out their present views. BoB
WA1FCNOn 6/20/2021 12:20 PM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:> You are right, Ken. It
seems like every few years some comes out with something to ruin DXCC and
amateur radio in general - SSB, RTTY, no code, RBNs, SDR, FT8, to name a few.
People blame the newest thing that they don’t like and/or don’t fully
understand for ruining our hobby. Yet the hobby goes on, getting stronger and
more diverse all the time.>> This too shall pass (when something newer makes
the hate list).>> STAN, K4SBZ> "Real radio bounces off the sky.">>> On Jun 20,
2021, at 1:00 PM, AB1J via CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com> wrote:>>>>
Hi Bob,>> You wrote: The ARRL has destroyed the value of DXCC.>>
===========================================>>>>>> The ARRL hasn't done
anything. Technological change has.>> The DX clusters and RBN destroyed the
value of DXCC. That happened quite a while back. Long before FT8 came
along.>>>> DXers used to be admired for their skills, knowledge and
perseverance. They used to operate by their wits. No longer. That's what
ruined DXCC.>>>> Name me a DXer you admire who has started from scratch 15
years ago and has over 300 Current confirmed and hasn't used the clusters or
RBN..>>>>>> 73,>> Ken, AB1J>>>>>> -----Original Message----->> From: wa1fcn
<wa1fcn@charter.net>>> To: cq-contest@contesting.com>> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021
12:46 am>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contesting and the FT8 Revolution>>>>>>
GE Kostas>>>> I just wanted you to know you are not the only one to
feel bad>> about DXCC.>>>> In the past couple years a few people
have E-Mailed me>> about their feelings>>>> in regards to DXCC.
The ARRL has destroyed the value of>> DXCC. It has taken>>>> me a
lifetime (over 50years) to achieve DXCC of 285 on 40>> meters low power.>>>>
They should of separated FT8/FT4 from all other modes in>> Single
band DXCC.>>>> DX with FT8 is fishing in a barrel. Can you imagine
the>> DXCC totals on 12 and 10>>>> meters when the Sunspot cycle
improves! Where is the>> challenge now?! There>>>> is none! I
can go on to other FT8 minuses like how it>> destroyed RTTY, how it has>>>>
made some hams lazy and see no need to put any effort into>> becoming
a more>>>> proficient operator in other modes.>>>>
Ok Kostas I will stop now as I am sure I offended>> enough hams already.>>>>
73 BoB WA1FCN>>>>>>> On 6/19/2021 2:46 PM,
Kostas SV1DPI wrote:>>> Maybe you have right. But I don't feel the same.>>>>>>
** The small pistol station revolution>>>>>> Having 1 kw and a 2el quad @10m
high, I don't feel a big gun. I had>>> the chance to be competitive in dxing
because I devoted many hours>>> studying propagation and even more time on the
radio. Now there is no>>> chance for me to make something that others do not.
They let their>>> computer and play 24 hours per day with better antennas and
more>>> power.... So yes small pistols have the chance to work something
they>>> had not but not to be competitive...>>>>>> ** The station optimization
revolution>>>>>> I have at least one friend who has a long wire and have worked
290>>> countries the last 3 years, of course in ft8, including pacific, etc.>>>
So why to make his station better? I remember that I put my quad>>> higher when
I lost a dxpedition, I bought an amplifier the next time,>>> etc... Now there
is no chance to loose a dxpedition especially because>>> almost every
dxpedition (let me know it - don't forget that the first>>> ft8 robot was Greek
and I know some of the guys bought it) uses more>>> than one robots running ft8
all day. And they have not the courage to>>> say it...>>>>>> ** The now-casting
propagation revolution>>> In SZ1A we have a skimmer (maybe you know it even it
is out of order>>> the last 3 weeks - we have ordered the damaged parts). We
use the>>> results of the skimmer to make our plans in contests. The first
time>>> we were keeping ft8 qsos as the CW qsos also. This had as a result
to>>> drive us to mistakes in real contesting. While the band seemed to be>>>
open the previous days during specific time, it wasn't finally during>>> the
contest. So we stopped using the FT8 spots and now we keep only>>> the CW qsos
to make our plans.>>>>>> ** The marginal bands revolution>>>>>> Yes, ft8 helps
a weaker station to have a QSO (I don't think "to be>>> heard" is the right
expression). I am not a 6m fun but I managed to>>> work 125 entities the last
15 years. Also optimization of antennas,>>> radios, amplifiers, etc, all these
years. Someone using ft8, has>>> worked these entities the last 2 years in the
lower point of solar>>> cycle using the half length of my boom. But what he
will do the next>>> years... What he will work in high part of solar cycle? And
why he>>> needs to wait for it? Probably he will play cards because I don't>>>
think he will stay in ham radio... If you don't need to improve the>>> station,
the antennas, to study and learn propagation, to learn more,>>> to increase
your knowledge, etc... what will be the interesting part>>> to keep you in ham
radio? I already know someone who stopped to play>>> radio, never installed his
new hexbeam, because he worked WAS on 40m>>> in a week with a long wire (WAS is
far more difficult from DXCC from>>> Greece), letting his computer to play ever
night. Plus another one who>>> had dxcc with all entities in ft8 but he didn't
know the QSO procedure!>>>>>>>>> In conclusion, I don't care what the others
do. I mentioned about>>> others just to show the results. I have not fun with
ft8 and this is>>> why I don't use it. If you are pleasant with it, do it. I
don't care.>>> I lost my interest for DXing.>>> I can not understand how
someone has fun with ft8 in contesting.>>> Because the rhythm? Because the nice
sound? Because of the pileup? Or>>> because he has the time to go to the toilet
while his computer makes>>> some QSOs...>>>>>> By the way I am a digital guy! I
gave many new ones to west coast guys>>> on RTTY from Iran (EP6T) and I have
329 entities on RTTY. I have tried>>> ft8 and I didn't like it. I abandoned
dxcc program while I was HR1, HR>>> on SSB and CW and had over 2850 entities in
challenge because of Ft8>>> acceptance by ARRL. I am crying over the money I
gave to ARRL. After>>> 25 years in ham radio I continue to play chasing fun in
CW/SSB/RTTY>>> contesting (mainly casual but more serious also sometimes) and I
don't>>> think ft8 could be part of my contesting habits.>>>>>> 73 Kostas
SV1DPI>>>>>>>>> Στις 19/6/2021 18:24, ο/η José Nunes CT1BOH έγραψε:>>>> There
is a revolution going on – The FT8 revolution! Like other>>>> revolutions, it
is a breakthrough and there is no coming back. But>>>> unlike>>>> what many
think, FT8 mode is fantastic for amateur radio and of>>>> course for>>>>
contesting.>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several things I can particularly
note:>>>>>>>>>>>> ** The spotting revolution>>>>>>>> Because of the default
reporting option of FT8 applications, every>>>> station>>>> that uses JTDX/WSJT
applications is constantly spotting all the stations>>>> that the decoders
hear. Every station becomes a spotting machine of the>>>> bands (just like a
skimmer) while they are on. The result?! 20.8 billion>>>> FT8 spots in 4
years.>>>>>>>>>>>> ** The small pistol station revolution>>>>>>>> Considering a
2500 Hz bandwidth and weak-signal/Noise Ratio, SSB can>>>> go as>>>> low as +10
dB, CW -15 db and FT8 -21dB. To put it in another way, since>>>> doubling power
results in 3 dB increase in SNR, a 31db difference>>>> means 1W>>>> in FT8
versus 1024 watts in SSB.>>>>>>>> A modest station, suddenly, feels like a new
world of propagation has>>>> opened to him and this in return brings more and
more people to the>>>> bands>>>> because of the fun of working stations and
paths not before available.>>>> There is a virtuous cycle – more spots, more
people, more activity, more>>>> spots, more people, more activity,
…>>>>>>>>>>>> ** The now-casting propagation revolution>>>>>>>> With such a
huge volume of spots, 20.8 billion in 4 years and around 22>>>> million spots
per day [just for your reference last CQWW CW generated>>>> 6.5M>>>> spots],
propagation prediction is turning into now-casting propagation.>>>> There is no
need for propagation prediction anymore because, knowing the>>>> propagation
pattern from 20 billion spots and getting real>>>> propagation from>>>> the 22
million spots per day, real time conditions come from now-casting>>>>
propagation - any circuit can be determined to be open or close.>>>>>>>> You
can watch my 2021 Contest University presentation about this subject>>>> here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-esob7BPtc&t=20340s and/or get the>>>> slides
of the presentation slides here>>>>
https://www.contestuniversity.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/There-is-Nothing-Magic-About-Propagation-CTU-2021-CT1BOH.pdf>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
** The station optimization revolution>>>>>>>> This is perhaps one of the most
overlooked aspects of FT8 and of great>>>> interest to contest stations.
Because of the spotting revolution and>>>> because every FT8 station uses exact
grid locator, the exact path of the>>>> circuits can be drawn. A contest
station that uses a simple FT8>>>> skimmer can>>>> monitor, 24x7, the potential
of any antenna set-up, compare different>>>> antennas configuration (A/B
testing using different calls), test antenna>>>> take-off angles, and adjust
this information to available propagation at>>>> any time, before or during a
contest. “22 million spots per day” are>>>> there>>>> available to test your
station. I believe every station, DX or>>>> Contest, should>>>> use a FT8
Skimmer, like the stand alone Red Pitaya>>>> https://www.redpitaya.com/ to skim
several bands at the same time at>>>> a very>>>> low cost, provide now-casting
information, check antenna and location>>>> potential and use that for station
optimization. This link takes you>>>> to a>>>> visualization of my modest small
pistol station (just a simple long>>>> wire)>>>> potential on all the bands
https://tinyurl.com/e6767we8 in the last 24>>>> hours.>>>>>>>>>>>> ** The
marginal bands revolution>>>>>>>> With FT8, marginal bands like 160, 10 and 6
meters become alive like no>>>> other. Going deeper into the SNR, “opens” new
circuits, brings more>>>> activity, confirms these circuits were always there.
We are working>>>> Japan>>>> on 6 meters on a daily basis... Also, there is a
move from CW into>>>> FT8 on>>>> these band. This is a side effect, but it is
what it is. If people>>>> suddenly>>>> find a band open at -21dB that before
was close at -15dB, of course they>>>> will use the mode that enables those
QSOs and will not use the other>>>> mode>>>> anymore.>>>>>>>> In any case
competitive contesting (SSB and CW) has a lot to gain>>>> form this>>>>
revolution. Exciting times indeed>>>>>>>> 73 José Nunes>>>> CONTEST CT1BOH -
http://www.qsl.net/ct1boh>>>>
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